Warbird Information Exchange

In a thread about the Dakota Territory Air Museum's P-47, OD/NG and BDK started an intriguing conversation about the future of the Planes Of Fame Museum and Chino Airport, and I'm curious to learn more about this. Even though Planes Of Fame officially say that Santa Maria is an expansion rather than a move (I've seen the plans for the new museum and it looks very nice), do any of you think that Santa Maria will become the museum's main facility, and that Chino will become the secondary facility? (a similar function to the now closed Arizona facility)

Update: Here is some information from the Planes Of Fame Santa Maria expansion website: Adjacent development and air traffic have negatively impacted flight operations conducted at our current headquarters. Southern California is home to some of the most crowded and restrictive airspace in the country. Growth in the Inland Empire has led to dense housing tracts and industrial/commercial complexes being built where there were once open fields. These two factors have made operating vintage aircraft increasingly difficult at our current location.

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Tom

Yes, the Chino location will be a satellite operation for some time, but the intention is for the Santa Maria location to eventually be the "HQ" or main location for PoF. The reason is quite simple - encroachment. Civilization is expanding right up to the boundary of the airport in some cases. When I first started going to Chino airport in the 70's, it was a fairly isolated airport in the middle of dairy/farmland. It was known for it's "cow stench" and flat, open fields with no obstructions. It provided many areas for an "off airport" landing in the event of engine failure. Now, depending on which runway one uses, the options are much more limited. To see how much it has changed, just look at the time lapse of satellite imagery of the airport from this website:

https://earthengine.google.com/timelapse/

I believe their satellite database goes back to 1984. So, type in "Chino Airport" and look at the differences between 1984 and 2022 - it is stark! You can see all of the buildup and commercial developments close to the airport. Whether we like it or not, this impacts flight operations in a very negative manner. Large, wealthy corporations such as Amazon can easily outspend PoF, the city, county and state all combined together. Commercial interests will always trump everything else. When you have that much buildup close to the airport, it has lots of downstream effects that affect normal flight operations as well as waivered airspace for things such as airshows. Wonder why PoF hasn't had their annual airshow since before Covid? Hint, it has to do with waivered airspace and the difficulties in obtaining it. From what I've been told, when it comes to waivered airspace, the FAA won't allow any non-essential people underneath the confines of that airspace. Guess what is below that airspace, in the immediate vicinity of Chino Airport? Walmart, FedEx, Amazon, BestBuy, and Kimberly-Clark are all among the warehouses, fulfillment centers and/or storage areas that are underneath the traffic pattern at Chino. Most of these corporations probably operate a 24/7 operation. What do you think the answer would be if either the FAA or PoF were to ask them to suspend operations and evacuate their personnel from those areas for most of the day on Saturday and Sunday during the airshow? There is your answer.

If you notice, PoF has now taken over the "Central Coast Air Fest" airshow as the primary sponsor/agent in charge of executing it. More info here:

https://www.centralcoastairfest.com/

This airshow has replaced the annual PoF airshow at Chino airport. This is now one of, it not the largest generator of income for the museum. The move is by design, by choice, as it is very difficult now to obtain waivered airspace around Chino Airport. In my opinion, I don't think we will see another airshow at the Chino airport location.

From my talks to PoF personnel, they hope to keep the Chino location open and operational indefinitely, as long as flight operations are able to be conducted there. So far, there is no threat to airport closure, so it could remain for decades. My impression is that they will operate the Chino location as a satellite facility, much in the same vein as Valle.

Hopefully, that gives you more insight into what has transpired and the reason for the move.

Thank you for the detailed information, OD/NG!

Here are my observations of the construction around Chino Airport (from Google Earth): Well, I've got a feeling that the airport might become completely surrounded by buildings in a few years time, as the east and west ends of the runways have many warehouses very close to them, and the south side has a large housing estate across the road. The only side of the airport that still has farmer's fields is the north side, but I think those are going to be replaced by more warehouses or housing estates in the near future. Let's hope that Chino Airport does not end up like Santa Monica! I have seen aerial views of Chino Airport from past years before on a website called Historic Aerials, and you can see views of the area going back to 1938, before the airport was even built (it appears that runway 8R/26L was not built until the mid 1990's, and that runway 3/21 was longer than it is today).
Link: https://www.historicaerials.com/viewer

Since Planes Of Fame are organising this year's Santa Maria Airfest, does this mean there are no plans to have any more airshows at Chino, since the warehouses are below the airshow's waivered airspace zone?

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Tom

No, nothing is definitive and I have not heard that as such. All of my previous discussion is based on talking to several PoF personnel. None of them is saying there will never be another airshow at Chino airport. It's just my opinion that the writing is on the wall, and it's unlikely to happen.

There is a whole lot of detail about waivered airspace that I don't know about. The restrictions and limitations of waivered airspace depend on a multitude of factors, including what is below it in regard to personnel, structures, housing, population density, etc. I believe one can get waivered airspace in certain high population density areas, but it's all completely risk-based, as decided by the FAA. High energy, high performance aerobatics obviously dictates a much higher standard and a clear "safety zone" below it than a regular airspace zone that might only have non-aerobatic flybys in it. I don't know what Steve has asked for in the past, but only that a fairly unrestricted waivered airspace zone that supports military team demo's (F-22, F-35, etc.) is now difficult to obtain from the FAA in support of an airshow at Chino Airport.

Never say never, and I hope they are able to have one final "send off" airshow to bring its legacy to a close. I suspect if that happens, any waivered airspace will be very limited and might not have the ability to support aerobatics or high performance, high-G operations. Perhaps someone with more knowledge than me can address waivered airspace and all of the nuances associated with it.

All of this is my limited understanding of how that works based on talking to people involved in the airshow biz.

As someone who has flown into, and driven to, Chino for many years during the airshow weekend, I can tell you I’m none too disappointed by the prospect of POF having their annual airshow relocated to Santa Maria. Of course I’m slightly biased as my ranch is 20 miles away from Santa Maria’s airport.

Lots of advantages IMO for the relocation if indeed it happens as the previous posters have eluded. The main advantages IMO would be plenty of open space for flying. Right next to ocean. Centralized location for shorter flying distances for airshow participants. Plenty of local accommodations and ease of travel by both car and plane. Wine country. Cooler weather temperatures. And oh yeah! Once again! I live here and know all the local stuff, places to stay etc.

I’m not sure what the Chino shows were averaging in attendance, but if POF can attract the same, or similar, amount of warbirds in number and variety of types, I’d think the Santa Maria attendance numbers would be comparable.

A few weeks ago when it was 99 degrees in Chino I checked the weather in Santa Maria and it was only 74. Besides all the other factors , this has to be a huge part of it too, since Fighter Rebuilders will be moving there quickly.

As an aside, the website Historic Aerials is excellent for this type of stuff and goes back further than Google Earth.

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Tri-State Warbird Museum Collections Manager & Museum Attendant

Warbird Philosophy Webmaster

Two of the "official" comments that I've seen posted;

- if they were leaving Chino they wouldn't have just spent the $100,000's on their new Korean War Memorial display outside the museum.

- they are 'happy' about the local warehouse construction, as this keeps the area as industrial designation and prevents any residential housing encroachment.

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remember the Oogahonk!
old school enthusiast of Civiltary Warbirds and Air Racers

A lot of the POF Chino future will depend on what the County of San Bernardino expects when their lease is up.

I've also heard a rumor that someone is negotiating to build an air-freight terminal at Chino, though not at the POF site. POF may get crowded out from progress like this.