Warbird Information Exchange

Hello!

I am totally new to this forum, so I didn´t know if this was the right place to post - or if had any interest to you...

I first posted it on the photo thread, but was suggested to post it here.

So here I go:

I encountered the wreck of what I now know is Douglas A-20B sn. 41-3013 about 15 years ago when trekking in South Greenland, on the Narsaq Peninsula @ 15-20 km. southwest of Narsarssuaq Airport, the former Bluie West-1 USAF base. The wreck is situated on a plain just north of the mountain Nunasarnaq, in danish "Strygejernet", the "Iron" due to its shape.

It crashed on the 25th of april 1943, apparently killing its crew of 3. Pilot was Crider, Harvey A Jr. I only learned of this tradegy yesterday, when I was told about the exact identity of the plane on another forum

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6atz9hpq4t0hv7s/IMGP2415.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8mj9odjkr34sos/IMGP2416.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d3bn7ugisyg0jy5/IMGP2427.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kbxde2lti6nyfii/IMGP2428.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/npmbqn71n97ypzn/IMGP2429.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zoyhs2wj06y6uoy/IMGP2430.JPG?dl=0


I have ordered a crash report, now it will be exiting to see if it provides any information I can understand.

The dry climate means no corrosion to speak of, as you can see.

Am I correct in assuming that the red dots in the stars on the wings mean it has been a USAAC plane?

Work on B.W.-1 started in july 1941, and as I understand USAAC only existed until june 1941, and the stars on the tail section is also without the red dot, I assume that the red has been paintes over, and time and abrasion has removed the covering layer of paint. Or?

The wing centre section carried signs of a fire, and was torn from the rather undamaged tail section. Also, very little remained from the cockpit - the wreck is of course wellknown by the local sheepfarmers who removed other items of interest, like the propeller centres and landing wheels. The engines had ripped themselves loose from their nacelles and tumbled some fifty metres further on, still very undamaged, as is the broken-off wings.

My interest in aircraft stems from all the Airfix and Revell kits I made as a 10 year old kid, and I somehow kept the interest.

I have ordered a plastic model kit of an A-20B and some decals that are closer to the correct ones. Has anybody here knowledge of the plane or the squadron - paint scheme, history, stories - anything I will not learn from the crash report. Or somebody who has the crash report and can help to understand the report better? Significant points and details....


Other than this plane, Narsarssuaq gave many sights to wake my partly sleeping interest in aircraft.

I also found a Harvard wing, that one winter came down from the icecap in a storm and ended up in some bushes just behind the Youth Hostel in Narsarssuaq.....there goes a story about 2 Harvards that succesfully landed on a frozen lake about 50 km. north of the base due to not being able to land in bad weather and running out of fuel. Before they were retrieved, the weather worsened and the were smashed by heavy winds. Apparently, the wing should be from one of these. One of the the pics I do have shows the manufacturers plate on the wing, if that helps in determination of the aircraft and possibly confirming the story.

I never took pictures from the dump, but I should have. Among the gems there was the frame of a light aircraft of some kind, a Piper Cub maybe, and the belly-bowl gun tower off a B-17, complete bar the guns. And the rather huge main landing wheel from a B-29!

There is a nice little museum in Narsarssuaq with lots of stuff from the base. Go there if you ever comes by.


Thanks in advance

Jon Petersen

PS. Funny thing on your forum - when writing about Airfix and Revell kits, I also wanted to mention "F R O G" kits - that was automatically changed to "french" - no euro-bashing here, I presume....... Smile

Welcome to the WIX, Jon!

Thanks for sharing you pics and info. Please feel free to post some more!

Jesse

Wow! Definitely the place to post. Great pictures, if you have more please post them. I'm sure someone around here can answer all your questions. Welcome to the forum. The B-17 folks ears are perking up as we speak! B-17 parts, what where!!
Chris

Yes- I imagine time has worn away the paint which was presumably put over the red dots in the middle of the star.

As to the other, I imagine we can't talk about our pet french here, unless we have more than one- a group of frogs(or is that frenches?)... The computer likes to make us politically correct and euro-compliant, even though I feel my freedom of expression is being quashed in the name of feel good policies, which only mask peoples real feelings, causing it to boil and fester, since they know they will be castigated and censored should they dare speak honestly...

Be that as it may- Thanks for the neat pics/post(although you might want to add "1943" to your title, so people don't think it is a new crash...)

Welcome aboard!
Robbie

Thanks everybody for the very kind words...

I just have one more photo, from the inside of the tail, showing the cableactuated mechanism working the rudder, the high quality of the metallurgy and manufacture - and the low levels of moisture there.

Also, I have a couple of pictures of the Harvard wing. But that is it. Oh, I probably have some more originals of the slides - I usually shot 2 or 3 basically identical frames when taking slides, so if anybody wants...they don´t cost much to put in a letter!

Jon

I believe you click on that edit button, upper right, and then write over or add to the existing subject line on your post...I think...I haven't changed a title, just gone back and fixed bad grammar, misspellings and other things I have noticed I have messed up after hitting the send button!

Thanks again - it worked!

Jon

Welcome to WIX, Jon!
The photos and information are very much appreciated - nothing like a new wrecksite and the possibility of a B-17 ball turret to get the discussion going. You said this was 15 years ago - do you know if the wreck is still there? Is the dump publicly accessible, and is anything left? Sounds like a good place to go wreck hunting!

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All right, Mister Dorfmann, start pullin'!
Pilot: "Flap switch works hard in down position."
Mechanic: "Flap switch checked OK. Pilot needs more P.T." - Flight report, TB-17G 42-102875 (Hobbs AAF)

I don´t know if it´s still there - but why not? Nobody would remove it, I´m sure. Afterall, it is in the qaqemut - the fjell, if you like. Approximately ½ an hours walk from the nearest farmer, he would be able to show the direction. You can go to his place by boat from Narsarssuaq in 1 or 2 hours. The place is called Ipiutaq. He has some parts nearby his house - propeller spinners, hubs from the landing wheels.

When looking for it at Google Earth from 300 meters, it looks as though it COULD be this:

60*59'081"N - 45*43'31.79"W

At least it is in that area.

I always thought "Why didn´t I bring a set of spanners? Oh, because I am already having 25 kg´s in my backpack, that´s why!"

And yes, the engines gave the impression that it would be possible to bring them back to life - or at least they could yield some good spares.

But I don´t know.


The stuff on the dump presents a greater uncertainty, but the dump is huge, and stuff always comes up.


The museum is there!

Jon

The markings look pretty generic to me. Probably just Olive Drab over Nuetral Gray, with the yellow serial on the tail. The insignia were probably just a "star in circle" on the fuselage sides, the upper left, and lower right wings. The red dots were removed from US insignia in 1942..if this aircraft crashed in '43, it most likely didn't have them The dots were probably painted over, and weathering has exposed the one on the wing. The "U.S. ARMY" on the undersides of the wings would most likely be insignia blue. Obviously, with the forward fuselage gone, it's impossible to determine if there were any unit markings or nose art. Some A-20s had medium green blotching on the leading and trailing edges of the flying surfaces..it's hard to judge if this one had them from the photo.

Cheers!

Steve

Thanks!

That will help with the model!

Jon

If you ever find out more information about the light plane you mentioned, I know of some folks that might be interested.

Ryan

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Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.

The Douglas A-20B # 41-3013 was part of a three-ship flight of A-20 airplanes that were being ferried back to the US via Goose Bay, Labrador. The airplanes were being escorted by a C-87. The flight took off and circled to gain altitude, joining the C-87 soon after. The subject airplane was seen to go into a spin while trailing the C-87. The airplane continued in a spin until it disappeared into the undercast. The pilot failed to recover and the airplane smashed to the ground and exploded. All three crewmembers were killed.

1Lt. Harvey A. Crider, pilot
SSgt. Joseph B. Quinlivan, gunner
SSgt. Lorren L. Noel, gunner

The accident report can be found on:
USAAF Aircraft Accident Report Microfilm
Call # 46194, 25 April 1943, Accident # 501

The US Army Air Corps evolved into the US Army Air Forces in June of 1941; The Air Corps still existed, but as a small part of the larger Army Air Forces. After this time, the Air Corps was mostly involved with training and other tasks.

Good Luck with your research.

TonyM.

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"Welcome back Mr. Lasky."

This airplane was part of the
47th Bomb Group/97th Bomb Squadron

TonyM.

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"Welcome back Mr. Lasky."

60°59'08.1"N 45°43'31.79"W ?????????????