Pensacola B-25/PBJ

TheBigBadGman · **Joined:** Sun May 27, 2012 1:14 am **Posts:** 111

I saw a thread on Hyperscale where, supposedly, the National Naval Aviation Museum needed information on paint colors for their B-25 restoration. It would seem that they are painting a B-25 to represent a Doolittle Raider.

Does anybody here know anything about this?

I'm assuming its that PBJ (B-25D) they have sitting outside.

So much for remembering the service of B-25s in the US Navy, huh? I'm all for the bravery of the Doolittle crews, but it seems to me that that is the only paint scheme any museum with an older B-25 will consider.

The Hyperscale discussion quickly devolved into one over some of the poor-accuracy paint schemes the museum has on display (the PB2Y in particular). I agree wholeheartedly with them, though I'm more-so happy that they finally have the PB2Y restored. Maybe I'm not a big enough Navy-fan, as its those guys who wantonly spray the interiors of B-17s green that rile me up.

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:59 pm

It's actually a J-model, with a turret dome stuck on in the aft position a-la C/D..making it even further afield from a Doolittle Raider. It was certainly in need of a repaint when I took this pic last March. And over a decade of exposure to the salt air and Florida sun have left that turret dome practically opaque.

I understand the desire to paint it up as a Raider, but there's already a B-25 in Doolittle markings less than an hour up the road at the USAF Armament Musuem (also a J-model masquerading as a B.)

I was the one carping on Hyperscale about the Coronado (and I cringe at B-17s with green interiors as well

.) Like you, I'm thrilled they have the PB2Y restored and on display..it looks great, and I suppose only us Color Police would really pay much attention to the markings...

SN

Warbird Kid · **Posted:** Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:11 am

Steve Nelson wrote:

I understand the desire to paint it up as a Raider, but there's already a B-25 in Doolittle markings less than an hour up the road at the USAF Armament Musuem (also a J-model masquerading as a B.)

Yeah but that one looks pretty convincing.

StangStung · **Posted:** Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:59 am

Is there a link to the hyper scale discussion?

This seems to be against the trend of museums focusing on the lesser known, but equally (or more) important aspects of service that haven't been addressed elsewhere.

I'm a huge Doolittle fan, but he'd probably be the first to say that the Raid named for him has been covered well by various institutions. As I recall, the Navy's role has been covered in the NMNA. They don't need a Navy aircraft painted as an AAF aircraft.

What a missed opportunity to try and portray this PBJ, and the patrol personnel it represents, as something worthy of remembrance in the museum where that remembrance is most appropriate.

Pogmusic · **Posted:** Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:43 pm

Warbird Kid. I grew up in this area. When the B-25J was "The" Doolittle Memorial, located at the Valparaiso/Niceville border, It was a full on Bare Metal, TB-25N. As a high school cadet in AFJROTC, we would get to clean/polish it every year. Now I drive by it on my way to work.

When they moved it to the museum, they went to great lengths to make it look like a Raider. They removed the tail position and the side B-25J style gun position windows. At one time, they even had a replica of the $.50 bombsite in the nose.

Zac Yates · **Posted:** Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:53 pm

Please forgive my ignorance, but is the Pensacola machine a genuine PBJ?

Warbird Kid · **Posted:** Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:11 pm

KiwiZac wrote:

Please forgive my ignorance, but is the Pensacola machine a genuine PBJ?

No, it's a B-25J backdated to resemble a B-25D / PBJ-1. The only actual PBJ-1 that still exists anywhere is the recently restored CAF example.

Zac Yates · **Posted:** Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:47 pm

Thanks Chris, I had a feeling that was the case. Lovely photo!

Craig59 · **Posted:** Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:53 pm

As the son of a PBJ pilot I would hate to see the NAM paint their B-25 in anything other than a PBJ, blue tri-color or bi-color scheme but, that being said, it's theirs to do with as they please. Perhaps the intent is to tie the Doolittle scheme with the fact the Raiders were carried aboard the USS Hornet and as Naval history goes, that's reasonable.

It's just that there are SO many B-25's painted to resemble Doolittle's. Off the top of my head and in addition to the one above they include the examples at the USAFM, Castle AFB, WWII Museum in Fredericksburg, TX., and (I think?) the Pearl Harbor Museum.

Others?

Warbird Kid · **Posted:** Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:12 pm

Craig59 wrote:

It's just that there are SO many B-25's painted to resemble Doolittle's. Off the top of my head and in addition to the one above they include the examples at the USAFM, Castle AFB, WWII Museum in Fredericksburg, TX., and (I think?) the Pearl Harbor Museum.

Others?

A year or two ago I put together a photo list on WIX here of all the known Doolittle B-25's (flying and static). Found it here:
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=53941&hilit=Doolittle

Speaking of another PBJ imposter, how about this actual forlorn looking B-25D thats on display in Texas. Looks like she's owned by the USMC Museum. I hope they decide to reclaim, restore, and put her on display in there expanding museum eventually.

http://www.warbirdregistry.org/b25registry/b25-433308.html

Craig59 · **Posted:** Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:08 pm

Thanks for the list, Chris. Eight more B-25's painted as Doolittle's and we could launch the entire mission again!

Yeah, sadly the rare B-25D on loan to the city of Pampa, Texas won't likely be returning to Quantico anytime soon. The last time I exchanged emails with the NMUSMC aviation curator, Ben Kristy, it wasn't even on their radar.

Ken · **Posted:** Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:21 am

Craig59 wrote:

Thanks for the list, Chris. Eight more B-25's painted as Doolittle's and we could launch the entire mission again!

Yeah, sadly the rare B-25D on loan to the city of Pampa, Texas won't likely be returning to Quantico anytime soon. The last time I exchanged emails with the NMUSMC aviation curator, Ben Kristy, it wasn't even on their radar.

Shame, seeing that a D-model is so rare. Ugh.

Ken

Nathan · **Posted:** Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:00 am

my uncle Don worked on PBJs and flew on them too. He passed away last year at 94. He was a great man. I can only hope the museum does the B-25 as a PBJ. It only makes sense. I know my Uncle don would love to see it in PBJ markings.

-Nate

Warbird Information Exchange

Pensacola B-25/PBJ

Who is online