Warbird Information Exchange

From the for what it's worth file.....I didn't want to derail the current Messerschmidt thread so I started this one. Seen what turned out to be a great documentary on Netflix a couple of nights ago about the origins of the Israeli Air Force. It is called Above and Beyond. I never knew it but this guy's father was part of it. Yes, Israel used Messerschmidt's.



http://www.military.com/video/off-duty/ ... 3434759001


http://aboveandbeyondthemovie.com/

Great documentary..I caught it a few weeks ago. The Pee Wee Herman connection surprised me as well.

Technically speaking, the "Messerschmitts" flown by the Israelis were knock-offs: Czech-built Avias and I believe some Spanish-built Buchons. In one of the interviews a pilot mentions what dogs the Czech-schmitts were, because they had bomber engines (Jumos, rather than Daimlers.) I've also read that the Jumo turned the opposite direction, but the airframe was designed with a cambered vertical tail to counteract the torque of the Daimler..except it ended up accentuating the torque of the Jumo, making the plane's already infamous taxi/takeoff/landing characteristics even more terrifying <disclaimer: I don't recall where I heard that tale and it may well be apocryphal.>

SN

The 11hr overwater flight by the two single engine planes was a gutsy trip.

There were no Buchons used by Israel they had not been developed yet. Spain had other versions of the Messerschmitt that used Hispano-Suiza engines but they were not used by Israel either. The Israelis bought 25 Avia CS-199 Mezecs. 24 were delivered and one was interned when the aircraft it was being shipped in was impounded on an island in the Mediterranean. That one got delivered I think in 1950 when absolutely no one wanted it anymore. The best thing about the Mezecs were the German Revi gun sights which were salvaged and used on P-51 Mustangs.

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"I can't understand it, I cut it twice and it's still too short!" Robert F. Dupre' 1923-2010 Go With God.

I've seen the film twice, and give it my highest recommendation. A must-see for anyone with an interest in WWII-era aircraft. Even if one is not a Warbird enthusiast, the subject matter is told compellingly by the men who participated in that fascinating chapter of history.

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The main winding was of the normal lotus-o deltoid type placed in panendermic semi-bolloid slots of the stator. Every seventh conductor being connected by a non-reversible tremmy pipe to the differential girdle spring on the up-end of the grammeters. Moreover, whenever fluorescent square motion is required, it may also be employed in conjunction with the drawn reciprocation dingle arm, to reduce sinusoidal depleneration.

Yes it is. Coincidently there is also that "degrees of separation" thing involved with this Israel/Jewish history. I think I seen a quick glimpse of this ship transporting Jewish refugees to Palestine in that movie. The name of the ship is the Jewish State.



Prior to that, it was known as the USCGC Northland of the Duck Hunt fame in Greenland of which I and many others have been involved with and posted a thread or two on here.



That is the search for this Duck and the MIA's.




So there you have it....

Thanks for the clarification. I knew the Israelis used "aftermarket" Messerschmitts..but didn't realize that no Spanish-built aircraft were involved (and you're doubly-correct, the name "Buchon" only applies to the Merlin-engine aircraft. I'm not sure what the Hispano-Suiza powered aircraft were called.)

SN

A great book on the early history of the IAF, particularly the three Fortresses they obtained, is Hammers: Israels Long Range Heavy Bomber Arm, the Story of 69 Squadron by Zvi Avidror. It really gives you a good feel of just how much of a shoestring operation the Israelis were utilizing in 1948.

As a side note, RAF ace George "Screwball" Beurling jumped at the opportunity to fly for Israel, but was killed while transporting a liaison aircraft before he ever reached Israel.