Warbird Information Exchange

why?? why was the towel thrown in on b-17 swamp ghost for such an ignominious ending as a museum diorama?? the museum of the pacific is excellent, but come on!! why?? to much corrosion?? sequestration?? to many it was the holy grail of found warbirds to restore. bummer!!

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

Look at it this way...restoring it to any other standard would mean losing what's left of its originality.
If it was made airworthy, hom much of the original structure would be left?
Besides, there are other airworthy B-17s...(though admittedly not Es with combat history).

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.
Note political free signature.
I figure if you wanted my opinion on items unrelated to this forum, you'd ask for it.

Corrosion is important to preserve. In fact, I'm thinking of starting a museum with corrosion as its central theme.

add to that the AstrooooNomical cost

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Kind Regards,
Gary Lewis
J.A.F.O.

Let's go back to when we were 3 years old and asked our Mother 'Why?' her answer always was 'because'.
That's what was decided on by the guys with the fat wallets, here endeth the lesson-

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Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

I opened my wallet this morning and a moth flew out of it

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Kind Regards,
Gary Lewis
J.A.F.O.

Guys,
I am friends with Mr. DeHoff, and he has an excellent team. Take a second and check out their website and their press releases. All of this is covered in their website. http://www.pacificaviationmuseum.org/

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Andrew King
Air Museum Director with no Museum to Direct
Open to Suggestions

BOY! Are you lucky! I'm on Social Security and have my checks sent to the bank, because they're far too small to go by themselves

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Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

Anything is better than it corroding away out in that swamp with "tourists" landing helicopters on the wings and climbing all over it.

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"They done it, they done it, damned if they ain't flew." December 17, 1903

I hope that these pics will convince people that it should be preserved and NOT restored...

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Natural law. Sons are put on this earth to trouble their fathers.

How so? Looks like it needs restoration to me.

Is its important history that of sitting in a swamp, or of its combat?

A somewhat +1 as I'm still perplexed on this particular B-17's debate concerning preservation vs restoration. But it does sound like the folks in charge have a plan in place. Best of luck whatever the outcome. It certainly has a much better home than it did.

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45+47=Psalm 92:6

It's the old argument between conservation and restoration. And like many arguments, there's no middle ground.

Personally, I hope they stabilize it against further deterioration while keeping it as original as possible. Preserve it and protect it, but don't repaint/replace/alter its original details.

As the old saying goes, it's only original once. I might feel differently if there were plenty of other untouched originals around, but as far as I know there are no B-17s that are even close. For those who want meticulous, authentic restoration, I'm sure that Memphis Belle and The Swoose will fit the bill wonderfully. It will be possible to see genuine combat veteran aircraft in as-new condition. Plus we have 10 airworthy restorations (which of course require at least some modifications to meet modern avionic standards). There are quite a few restored B-17s but only one all-original. Even if it has suffered from climate and souvenir hunters, it still stands apart from the pack.

In the antique auto world the appreciation of "survivors" has grown exponentially in the past 20 years. It used to be that if a low-mileage, all-original, barn-find car turned up, it would routinely be restored with new paint, upholstery, nickel or chrome, etc. etc., no matter how well preserved the car may have been. Now untouched cars often fetch premium prices over restorations, and there's even a new judging class called "Historic Preservation of Original Features."

Whether an antique auto or a B-17, having a carefully conserved original can serve as a benchmark for future restorations or re-restorations of others.

It is a totally unique aircraft which deserves to be preserved so that its story, both of combat and decades of neglect, can be appreciated equally.

Hamilton-

I would argue that the Black Cat Pass example in PNG, should it ever be recovered, would be a similarly situated B-17 in terms of preserved originality. The Swoose is "preserved" in its last service condition, less a few souvenirs that were appropriated.

I think the hard part is that there are quite a few parts and pieces that need to be removed, corrosion stopped or reversed, and put back in place to be properly conserved. Once you start doing that, where do you stop?

kevin

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FOUND the elusive DT-built B-24! Woo-hoo!!!

I saw this fuselage section at Chino a couple of years ago (where it was unfortunately just sitting on a trailer out in the open). The condition of the skin was so bad that you could poke your finger through it if you tried (and no, I did not do that). If someone tried to 'restore' this aircraft to flyable status, all they could do would be to take some small part of this wreck and install it into a brand new airplane - kind of like stealing a VIN plate from a rare but hopelessly wasted muscle car and grafting it onto another, less rare one. Yes, you've preserved the VIN, but have you actually 'restored' the original car? (Not to mention possibly going to jail in some states!)

If someone tried to restore this aircraft by using anything other than the tiniest of pieces, you wouldn't catch me anywhere near it when someone tried to get it off the ground. From what I saw, there was nothing there that could be classified as usable on an airworthy aircraft.

Now, I know this is not a unique issue with this specific aircraft - lots of 'restored' warbirds are actually new airplanes with something from the wreck transferred over. Is that a restoration, or a new aircraft? I'm not an expert, so will not venture an opinion.

Not being an expert, I don't know how you could treat the metal to stop such an advanced case of corrosion - its not an isolated area that needs to be addressed, the whole thing is disintegrating.