Warbird Information Exchange

P-51D/Cavalier Mustangs Folks:

The latest issue of the fine magazine 'Warbirds International" (Summer 2012) has an excellent article about P-51 Mustangs & the Cavalier Mustangs and their roll in the "100 Hours War" in July 1969 to include the story of one of the American 'contract' pilots Chuck LyFord and his version of events during the 100 Hrs war july 1969. Plenty of pictures!

p.s Would love to get in touch with pilot & journalist Don Downey for a higher resolution picture of the Cavalier cockpit.

More to come prox!!

Is it a re-print of what was previously published in Air Classics a few years ago?

If so, it (the written account of Lyford's involvement, and at least one of the photos) is a direct thievery of my copyrighted material written from interviews I personally conducted with Lyford. It was given to Challenge Publications, unsolicited, by someone who was not authorized to transmit, release, or publish that material. That individual was not given any kind of permission to give it to anyone else, nor did I or Mr. Lyford give Challenge Publications permission to publish it.

Unfortunately, I don't have the financial means to file any legal complaint against Challenge Publications and/or whomever released the material to them. I learned a very important lesson about whom I share my material with through that affair.

That being said, it's a very interesting story that has not been previously widely heard. I'm eager to have all of the information widely seen, as it's a very compelling story and a very interesting chapter in the Mustang story. I am just bothered that Challenge Publications is making a profit off of it -- I'd rather give it all away for free to the warbird enthusiast community than have someone else profit from my work.

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Randy:

The current article & a previous AC article c. 1983 seems to be coming fm the same author. It that's the article that you are talking about??

All that I gather from the latest WB Int article is that there was never a visual contact/engagement among these "contract pilots" except one late 18-19 July 1969 when both pilots of the FAS 51 & the FAH F4U were having problems with their flying machines at one time in the air! Both of them went their own ways!!

Bob Love could have been an interesting challenge to Capt Fernando Soto Enriquez over the Salvadorean skies but good old Bob was against a humble pilot with over 400 + Hrs as an F4U Driver

Not only that, but the same article was published as a side piece to an article about returning ex-Honduras Corsairs four years ago in Warbirds International. Of course, the main article itself is a reprint since it appeared about fifteen years ago in the same magazine.

I do agree, Randy, that it was a fascinating article to read. You should take comfort in the fact that the story was read by many. Small compensation I am sure, but thank you for writing it!

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Rob C

Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. “

– Michael Crichton

Rob C:

I agree the story itself is a great one!

Maybe Randy or someone else can come-up with the intricate logistic details taken c. July 1969 to gather some seven P-51s in the US and then ferry them S. of the border to El Salvador! I'm willing to bet that little article/book will be a best seller!!

I found so far one pic of P-51 Lou IV somewhere in GA getting ready for the trip S. of the border c. July 69. Will post it shortly.

See this thread, it has pics of the Dave Forrest Mustang at KPDK many moons ago.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=44649

I don't think I have ever read the story you guys are talking about, but I know if Hacker wrote it, then its got to be good!

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Fly Fast Make Noise!

Unfortunately, there's still a lot about that story that's not being told -- I certainly don't know of any significant revelations, outside of trying to piece together as many bits of existing info as possible. Dick Phillips, John Dienst, etc, the usual players all have bits of info collected, but nothing complete so far as I know.

We do know that a good chunk of the info that's out there is riddled with both holes and errors, but that's about all anyone can say for certain.

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Randy/P-51 Cavalier Folks:

A few facts become a bit clear in this May 2012, ... some 43 years after the initial attacks over Toncontin airport the evening of 14 July 1969 at apprx 18:15 hrs.

1. In one week of air activities, close-encounters, poor mission planning etc FAS had lost at least 8 aircraft for different reasons. 2 of them, the brand new Cavalier TF FAS 400 interned at La Aurora due to some obscure reason and the lost of FAS 404 on 17 July 1969 about 11:00 Hrs near the Honduran border.

2. All others P-51s were down for maintenance reasons (FAS 405), 2 collided taxing at EOR on 16 July 1969 at Ilopango, one ran out of fuel & was obligated to force land at St. Miguel. FAS 219 was a victim of friendly fire & the pilot unable to flight afterwards. That aircraft BTW FG-1D FAS 219 is in about 700-1000 ft of water near a place called "Playitas" near La Union.

3. There were simply just 2 aircraft maybe 3 that could fly either locally for CAP purposes and most of all... FAS had no qualified Cavalier P-51 pilots or P-51s ready with armament for future missions. That's why they were forced to use the "contract pilots" or "guest" pilots as LyFord mentions in his article.

4. The story of the FAS B-26 used as decoy to lure FAH F4Us into the battlefield is.. if not spourious but plain hangar talk after drinking a few beers. FAS had no qualified B-26 pilots on 14 July 1969. Maybe there were able to flight C-47s but certainly had a few hrs if any on B-26 aircraft. Those B-26 were seldom flown and were seen taxiing only as a show of force afterwards. That's is also why there are no pictures available of these birds flying in El Salvador, they were since the beginning plagued with maintenace & hydraulic problems & no armament. I may be wrong until I see the flying pictures.

2 B Cont....

There was all ready a previous discussion about this photo and aircraft on WIX several years ago.

Short version: not a Cavalier.

I can't find the link to the thread here with a cursory search, but I believe an important clue is found on the vertical stab, just in front of the deflected rudder.

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Randy:

Tks for the info & data. If you find the previous link plz post. Would you plz expand on the tail/rudder detail?? Do you have other angles of this pic?? I'm digging for more details

No, I don't have any other angles of this incident.

I was just referring to the distance between the rudder counter balance and the top of the vertical stab; pretty obvious that it is a standard D/K-model tail, and not a Cavalier tail on that airplane.

I don't have my research material out right now, so I don't remember what we decided here on WIX as to the ID of that airplane; IIRC, it was one of the "warbird" Mustangs illegally flown to El Salvador for the '69 war, but that's just my fuzzy memory.

There was definitely a thread on it, though. I think perhaps Vlado asked about it, thinking it might have been a shot of his airplane. We did some comparisons of the camo scheme and markings to other known FAS Mustangs, and it did not match any of the known actors' paintjobs/markings.

Again, all just from memory; been several years since the discussion.

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Randy,
The Mustang is FAS 410, F-51D-20NT (or NA?), 122-41463, 44-74923 (acquired July 1969). Aircraft made a forced-landing at Amatecampo, La Paz, El Salvador on April 5, 1972. Pilot, Capt. Fredy Palucha.
(Source: Historia de la Fuerza Aérea Salvadoreña, Douglas Alcides Cornejo, page 194)

Cheers,

Amado

FAS P-51 Folks/Randy:

.... you may be right since the angle tend to distort the image. Not a Cavalier, poss 410 or FAS 411?? I may have to dig a profile view of FAS 410 coming fm Denmark which shows it in a slight diff scheme. We also know that FAS 412 crashed in the Pacific sea c. 1972!.

p.s any chance to get a hold of the P-51 hangar/restoration shots of the late G. Plasket??

Possible recovery candidate?