Identify 3 propellers & a helmet (sea wrecks of Britany)

Aurélien · **Joined:** Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:02 am **Posts:** 2

Hello,

I would like to identify those 3 propellers found by fishing boats near Brittany coasts, between 1995 and 2005.
I know it must be difficult or impossible to identify exactly the squadron and crew for each propeller, but I think it be possible to find what type of plane it was.
Consulting this website (http://www.enginehistory.org/Propellers/HamStd/hamstd.shtml) I have found that the hubs are hamilton standard's types.
This website shows that each type of plane possess a proper type of hub and blade.

If anyone could provide me technical documentation (sizes, draws, ...) between every type of hamilton' hubs, and about differents types of blades, perhaps it could be possible to identify each propeller?

The propeller with a blade missing was found near Erquy (Channel) with an helmet (made of fibers).
Could someone help me to identify the origin / type of this helmet, used by a member's crew of this plane?

Here pictures of propellers and helmet :
http://www.flickr.com/photos/113371063@N05/with/11748224735/

Thanks,
Aurélien

Thomas Reilly · **Joined:** Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:55 pm **Posts:** 72

The look an awful lot like they came off a P-40.

-Thomas Reilly

51fixer · **Posted:** Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:05 am

Most look like Ham Std Hydromatic type.
These were used on most US transports, Bombers and some Fighters.
They were also used on Packard Produced Merlin engines built for Hurricanes and several British Bombers types including the Mossie and Lancaster.

Jay · **Joined:** Fri Dec 10, 2004 3:15 pm **Posts:** 50

All P-40s were produced with Curtiss Electric propellers, never was the Hamilton Standard used on any version of the P-40. The early P-40 had the hollow steel blades and the later ones all used the aluminum blade. Also your blade chart contains a few errors so I wouldn't rely to much on its contents.

Thomas Reilly · **Joined:** Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:55 pm **Posts:** 72

[quote="Jay"]All P-40s were produced with Curtiss Electric propellers, never was the Hamilton Standard used on any version of the P-40. The early P-40 had the hollow steel blades and the later ones all used the aluminum blade. [quote]

That's correct, my mistake.

-Thomas Reilly

The Inspector · **Posted:** Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:00 pm

The helmet possibly is a fiber liner for a gunnery 'talkers' steel pot which was significantly bigger than the standard issue soldiers helmet to accomidate bulky earphones.

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11319

Clockwise rotation props could have been off of most anything unless you can identify the specific blade type. Looks like they have the piston used for feathering the blades so came off a multi-engined aircraft.

Are those Kettenkrad road weels behind the prop?

Pathfinder · **Joined:** Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:35 pm **Posts:** 587

Inspector--

I considered the talker helmet as well, but they don't have a "fiber" liner like a GI pot...they are steel with a segmented "foam" form attached to the inner steel. If you tore the foam out it would NOT be helmet-shaped....check this article.

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ ... er-helmet/

The other thing is the size...if that was a Navy talker helmet then that black wig head is HUGE...it wraps the head too closely to be a talker helmet.

All US flak helmets whether bare steel or covered (cloth or leather) have a distinct "shape" cut out for the headphones. Even the rare leather covered model has the slight alteration of the curve of the helmet. This one does not have any break in the lower curve.

I do not know of any RAF flak helmets but would be interested to know if anyone else does. The Luftwaffe had two models early on, but they also had features that do not correspond to this example.

51fixer · **Posted:** Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:08 pm

bdk wrote:

Clockwise rotation props could have been off of most anything unless you can identify the specific blade type. Looks like they have the piston used for feathering the blades so came off a multi-engined aircraft.

Are those Kettenkrad road weels behind the prop?

The Piston is a part of all Ham Std Hydromatic props.
It is what lives inside the alum dome on the front of the prop hub.
The fore/aft piston movement rotates a large gear on the rear end of the dome.
The blades also have a gear segment on their base which engages the dome gear and rotates each blade's pitch.
Blade type is stamped on the base of the blade inside the hub so unless disassembled and readable the only method to identify is by length of each blade and it's silhouette along with rotation. Merlin and American engines rotate to the right. Some, not all, British engines rotate to the left.
The dia and width of the reduction gear could help as well as the number of teeth on it.

Jay · **Joined:** Fri Dec 10, 2004 3:15 pm **Posts:** 50

To clear things up just a little, all the hub assemblies that you have pictured are all the same. They are referred to as a 23E50 hub group. You can narrow down the aircraft that they were used on by process of elimination. They could have been used on a C-47, B-17, B-24, B-25, A-26 and etc. As 51fixer mentioned, you must remove one of the blades and find the Drawing Number on the butt to find the exact aircraft from which the blade came from.

Aurélien · **Joined:** Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:02 am **Posts:** 2

Thanks for your answers.

I think it will be difficult to dismantle blades from the propellers, so if everyone have a list of blades, with sizes and silhouttes, it could be the easier way...

A friend of mine have told me that some aircraft crew used some baseball helmets, before the antiflak helmets were produced. Is someone know anything about that?

That's not kettenkrad wheels, but 2 Famo and 1 panther wheels.

Aurélien

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:16 pm

no clue on the props, but to me the helmet looks like an ordinary ww2 steel italian combat helmet, not a navy talker.

The Inspector · **Posted:** Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:02 pm

Aurélien wrote:

Thanks for your answers.

I think it will be difficult to dismantle blades from the propellers, so if everyone have a list of blades, with sizes and silhouttes, it could be the easier way...

A friend of mine have told me that some aircraft crew used some baseball helmets, before the antiflak helmets were produced. Is someone know anything about that?

That's not kettenkrad wheels, but 2 Famo and 1 panther wheels.

Aurélien

The first practical batting helmet was developed in about 1910 and looked like a cross between a period basball soft cap with the leather ear flaps from a Jim Thorpelike leather helmet and was only used a few times by one or two players. The first team to use batting helmets regularly was the 1952 or 53 Indians, and the helmet as we now know it came into being in the early 1970's.

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Identify 3 propellers & a helmet (sea wrecks of Britany)

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