87th Troop Carrier Squadron on D-Day

jonesy · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2012 4:01 pm

I had the opportunity over the weekend to do an air to air shoot with C-47 42-100882 'Drag em oot'. I'm hoping to write an article about this aircraft and I'm struggling to find good info regarding the 87th Troop Carrier Squadron where she was assigned. Now I know they were stationed at Greenham Common but did they drop the 502nd PIR on the night of D-Day and what subsequent missions did they do. I do know this aircraft was equipped with the gear to recover gliders.

Any info appreciated.

Neil.

michaelharadon · **Posted:** Wed May 09, 2012 12:02 am

Real nice shot...love the grime.

K5DH · **Posted:** Wed May 09, 2012 8:22 am

Nice shot! The weathered paint makes the C-47 look even more authentic.

Pathfinder · **Joined:** Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:35 pm **Posts:** 587

882 was the #2 aircraft of Serial 7--the first serial to enter Normandy following the Pathfinders--thus in the grand scheme was to be the second plane to drop in the Invasion. Serial 7 did in fact drop 2nd Bn 502 PIR of the 101st. Their objective was DZ A. Drops began at 0048 on June 6 (England time) 2348 in France.

(It is important to note that the three lead pathfinder planes (dropping Capt Lillyman c/o of the 101st Pathfinders plus two more planeloads of PF personnel from 502 and 377th Parachute Field Artillery Bn) dropped to mark DZ A (centered on St. Martin de Varreville) were a mile off target and set up their nav aids in St. Germaine de Varreville.)

So one has to judge the accuracy of their drop based on if the pilots were steering toward the PF nav aids--or--toward the map coordinate of the intended DZ A. Yes a mile is a big deal--30 seconds flight time--especially when you are that close to the English Channel.

882 was right wing to the formation leader whose plane was equipped with all the electronics--Rebecca; SCR-717C; Gee. Looking at the maps showing approximate drop locations for the 502 shows that they pretty much split the difference between where the pathfinder were and where DZ A was located. Curiously, a significant number of planes intended for DZ A had a concentrated drop on DZ C--several miles away--DZ C being the last resort DZ for lost planes.

There are some personal contacts on the AAF.com sub page for the 438th TCG.
You might also check the library for this book for a broader history of the 438th:

Into Fields of Fire

By Austin J. “Buck” Buchanan & W. L. George Collins
Library of Congress Number 2004092070,
ISBN Hardcover 1-4134-5200-0, Softcover 1-4134-5199-3

Dave Smith · **Posted:** Wed May 09, 2012 2:50 pm

Neil, that's a fantastic photo of 882. And thanks to Pathfinder for her D-Day history which I have never read in that much detail. I well remember the morning of June 6, 2008 when I was tower controller at Liverpool John Lennon Airport. It was 0630 and the usual morning rush of Ryanair 737s and easyJet Airbuses was in full flow to various European cities. I was acutely aware that they were all taxying past the GA ramp on which was parked 882, a piece of living history. 64 years before she would have been resting after a hectic and dangerous night's work.

jonesy · **Posted:** Wed May 09, 2012 3:13 pm

A very big thank you to Pathfinder for the info. Really useful stuff which I can use.

I'd be interested in knowing who were the crew for the D-Day drop too.

Drag em oot will be departing for Normandy on the 1st of June with a load of paratroopers who will be dropping over Sannerville (DZ 'K'). Over the anniversary week she'll be busy dropping paratroopers at various ceremonies. I'll be there with my WWII jeep so hopefully I'll get some photos.

Are there records of how many glider pickups were carried out?

Neil.

Pathfinder · **Joined:** Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:35 pm **Posts:** 587

Thank you gentlemen. And I would be remiss not to credit my good friend and colleague Pat Elie in France who has devoted so much time and effort in graphically depicting the D-Day serials on his EXCELLENT website.

http://www.6juin1944.com/assaut/aeropus/en_index.php

I believe there was some 882 chatter between crew-kinfolk on the 438 forum....

http://forum.armyairforces.com/438th-TCG-f219.aspx

gliderman1 · **Posted:** Fri May 11, 2012 8:13 am

How many troopers were carried by this plane on the Normandy drop?

"Are there records of how many glider pickups were carried out?"

Yes, Keith Thoms has done extensive research on worldwide glider snatch recoveries. Only 13 CG-4A were recovered after Normandy.

Reasons for only 13:
1.Too much hedgerow and landing damage to gliders.
2.No one set up guards for those recoverable gliders.
3.Everyone, natives and troopers removed fabric, wheels and whatever else they wanted from the gliders.
4.Lack of winch equipped C-47 aircraft. Of the C-47 sent to England with a winch, half the winches were ordered removed by a specific officer who claimed the system did not work despite he knew nothing about it. He just happened to be one of the many who hated gliders. Also, he traded 12 C-47 with winches to the Brits for 12 without winches.
5.Several winches were destroyed previously in England by crews who flew them without any knowledge of how they worked or were supposed to be operated.
6. No one planned for or set up a local field where the gliders could land for a normal tow by a winchless C-47 going back to England after being snatched. This resulted in the snatched gliders having to be towed all the way back to England on the winch, drastically increasing recovery time for the C-47s with winches.

patelie · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2012 10:10 am

jonesy wrote:

I'd be interested in knowing who were the crew for the D-Day drop too.

Like it was said previously by Dave she was CN #2 in serial #7
About the crew I have two possibilities
Pilot : Lt ALLIN, Orlando H., Jr
Co-pilot : Lt. CHATFIELD, Ed
Radio-operator : Cpl. PETERS, Joe
Crew chief : Sgt. DEMETREUS, Joe

or
Pilot : Lt. CHATFIELD, Ed
Co-pilot : Lt ALLIN, Orlando H., Jr
Radio-operator : Cpl. PETERS, Joe
Crew chief : Sgt. DEMETREUS, Joe

I suspect the second one because Chatfield was 1st Lt. and Allin 2nd Lt. but take care with this information because I don't have seen in the microfilms the combat crews for the 438th TCG like for other groups.

jonesy wrote:

Drag em oot will be departing for Normandy on the 1st of June with a load of paratroopers who will be dropping over Sannerville (DZ 'K').

I think that the drop will be over Hiesville with paratroopers from RCPT.

PS: check also this very interesting link about 882
http://www.ruudleeuw.com/dc3-n5831b.htm

jonesy · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2012 10:21 am

Thanks Patrick for the info. You're right about the drop on the 1st. I've just been on the RCPT facebook page and they are indeed dropping over Hiesville.

patelie · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2012 10:37 am

And the drop at Sannerville will be on 2 june at 11:30 and 3 june at 15:00

jonesy · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2012 10:43 am

Patrick, I've been using your 68th anniversary celebrations section on your website to plan my visit. A great website full of good info. Do you know if there is any paradrops on the afternoon of the 6th? know the LJT are dropping for the Winters memorial in the morning.

If you're interested, on the l/h side of the fuselage under the cockpit sliding window of Drag em oot it has 'Pilot Lt. O.H. Allin Jr' stencilled.

patelie · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2012 11:02 am

jonesy wrote:

If you're interested, on the l/h side of the fuselage under the cockpit sliding window of Drag em oot it has 'Pilot Lt. O.H. Allin Jr' stencilled.

Yes I know but there is also this information on armyairforces forum provided by Allin's son :
"My father, Orlando H. "Bill" Allin was a first pilot who flew as co-pilot for his buddy on D-day"
http://forum.armyairforces.com/About-th ... 74777.aspx

I don't know about paradrops after those of the 6th in the morning.. You don't have contact with M. Green? you could ask him about the schedule of his plane

Fantastic plane.. I was inside in 2010 to take pictures and video of the jumps
http://www.6juin1944.com/6juin10/index. ... =02&#fresv

patelie · **Posted:** Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:48 am

Hi

I come back to this old thread to correct an error I made at this time.
After speaking with the actual owner of 882, himself speaking with Bill Allin, we arrived at the conclusion that 882 didn't took part to the paradrop mission during the night.
One of the reasons for 882 not dropping paratroopers is that she was equipped with all the equipment for Glider pick up.
Bill Allin wanted to be a part of the paradrop so he switched his place and began co-pilot in William J. Beach's plane. Of course they were CN #2 but it was not 882 they flew in.
882 flew Elmira, the glider tow mission on 6 june

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87th Troop Carrier Squadron on D-Day

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