Warbird Information Exchange

We recently figured out that the military O-170 engine that I had intended to sell is the actual engine that was on the Aeronca O-58A when it was sold as surplus in November of 1945. It was not the engine the aircraft left the factory with but was installed when it last flew in 1944 and 1945. I had planned to upgrade to a C-85 but now some of my friends think the original engine should go back on the aircraft. New Millenium A-65 cylinders will e available again starting this November that would greatly increase the safety factor.

The Aeronca O-58A will come in around 775 to 785 lbs empty with a gross weight of 1260 lbs. and is heavier than a comparable Piper L-4 would be. I only weigh 170 lbs and my wife weighs 110 so crew weight is not an issue.

This A will be the only airworthy example left in the entire world (only 20 were built) and the question is should it be put back to original or upgraded with more HP for increased utility and safety.

Aeronca B and C models weigh more than the A on average of 25 to 40 lbs and many have been converted to 85 hp.

Thanks for your input,

Steve

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Champs and Chiefs all came with A-65's and have comparable weights and wing areas to your L-4. They fly fine on 65 hp. Sure, 85 hp will give you better climb performance, but given a one-of a kind aircraft, I'd restore it as close to original as possible.

The other thing to consider is how you're going to use the airplane. You're along the gulf coast, and there is nothing tall within 3 hours of you, so unless you are planning on heading pretty far North or West, altitude performance won't be a big issue for you.

Of course, I'm a guy with 3 Aeronca projects and 4 A-65's in his hangar, so I'm biased...

Not only biased but blessed, I agree with everything you said.

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A couple of options present themselves (and I'm only throwing out the practical, you'll have to research STC's on your own)
Conversion from A-65 to A-75 is a matter of pistons, rods and camshaft (which will probably need replacing anyway due to a 1949 AD that probably hasn't been complied with) There is a SB that covers it, and only requires a logbook entry.

C-75 or 85 can use the same tapered shaft which allows you to keep your proper prop. Externally they are nearly identical, depending on the age of the case. Parts availability is actually slightly worse than A-series, except for cylinders. New TCM cylinders are your most economical option there (surprisingly enough)

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Lest Hero-worship raise it's head and cloud our vision, remember that World War II was fought and won by the same sort of twenty-something punks we wouldn't let our daughters date.

Thanks for that info, I would like to keep the engine as an A-65-8 using the same case since it is stamped with the two military overhauls the engine received, the last one in 1945 at OCAD. I would try to also reuse the crank but replace the cylinders with new kits that would include new pistons, valves etc.

Steve

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What makes you think you need more than rings and a valve job?

Living at sea level and flying mostly solo the A 65 8 does the job just fine in my L 4. If I was at a higher altitude or flew two up near gross often I would be looking for a C 85. Since your plane is quite a bit rarer than mine I would shoot to keep the original engine on it as long as you can operate it safely where you are and with the load you will usually carry.

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Flying Piper L4-J 45-55209

I would also keep the original engine

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Magister Aviation
It's all in my book

Tough call...
Kyleb makes a great point.
How will you use it, how much, and where will you fly?
Just around the pattern and local area or an occasional cross country to airshows?

I really appreciate you wanting to keep it stock with the 65...but it won't be a museum display and you (and your wife) will be flying it, remember that safety (and performance is part of safety) is far more important than originality or historical accuracy.

I'd rather see a slightly modified (and we're not talking about anything that would be noticed by most people) airplane around for long time as opposed to an 100% original aircraft that might be less safe.

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.
Note political free signature.
I figure if you wanted my opinion on items unrelated to this forum, you'd ask for it.

Food for thought: Do whatever needs to be done to move to the C-85 that would require major internal work to the ariframe now. Ie: if there is a fuel line size change or routing change do it now. Make the assumption that you "will be" going to the 85 in the very near future on anything that is buired or would require disassembly to change, but continue to work with the intent to reinstall the 65. That way, when you get close enough, if things work good for the 65, it goes on, if not, you are ready for the 85 and don't have to go back in and rework anything.

I say since you fly over landscapes where the highest feature is a freeway overpass, stick with the 65. So what if it isn't a Barrett-Jackson numbers matching since day one restoration? Yes, it's got a history, but it isn't a Le Mans winner GT 40 or a one of one only.
If the original engine blew up or ate a valve in service do you think the airplane stayed grounded until the factory original engine came back from an overhaul depot? HECK NO! 'here's your new engine, you and Stan get out of the crate and on the airplane today'

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Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

How tough is it to swap engines? I once had a friend with a matching numbers '66 Corvette Convertible. He pulled the original 327 and put in a 350 while he was driving it around. When he decided he would sell (or when he wanted to show the car), he would put the 327 back into it. Granted, small block Chevy V-8s probably have more in common with each other than different brands of aero engines.