Brewster Buffalo successes?

[Stephan Wilkinson]

The much-maligned Brewster Buffalo did just fine in the hands of Finnish pilots flying against worthy Soviet opposition. Were there any other examples of Buffalos, perhaps in other air forces, comporting themselves honorably when they didn't have to fight Zeros?

[12XU2A3X3]

Maybe they just need the thatch weave...

[P51Mstg]

The most important contribution from the Buffalo was that it clued everyone into the fact that we needed a HellCat........

Mark H

[The Inspector]

If you read up on the history of BREWSTER AIRCRAFT, it comes off as the big business version of a Florida swampland sales outfit ending in it being closed down by the government in what verged on outright fraud.

[RMAllnutt]

The Finns were successful because they had the early -1 version without all of the heavier add-ons of the later variants. They had a 26-1 kill ratio! The Marines were using the -3 when they got wiped out at Midway. These were much heavier than the -1's the Finns used, plus the pilots were nearly all very green, and tried to engage the zeros in traditional dogfighting maneuvres... which had disasterous results. The Wildcats suffered just as badly from what I've read, but Brewster was not a company in good favour, and did have some severe difficulties at its factories. The other allied forces using the Buffalo (Holland and Britain) had similarly disasterous results against the Japanese, and consequently the type was quickly withdrawn from the front without having much of a chance to prove itself (much like the Devastator).

Interestingly though, I remember talking to Steve Beville (who flew Galloping Ghost at the Cleveland Air Races) and he said he'd give someone his house for a Buffalo if one ever became available. He'd flown an RAF version in England during the early days of the war... not in combat mind you... but he loved it, and absolutely hated the P-40 by comparison. Personally, I think the Buffalo got a worse rap than it deserved as a design. The Finnish Air Force performance in the type should be a clear indication that in seasoned hands, the type could do very well in combat. Brewster's biggest problem was that it got a very bad reputation very quickly, and was too small a company to really compete with the big boys who had better management, better resources, and more importantly, better representation at the War Department and in Congress.

Cheers,
Richard

[Stephan Wilkinson]

When you say "Britain" used the Buffalo, what that actually means is not just the RAF but the RAAF and the RNZAF, and in fact the Ozzies and Kiwis did fairly well with the Buffalo in the early years of the Pacific war.

[JDK]

Were there any other examples of Buffalos, perhaps in other air forces, comporting themselves honorably when they didn't have to fight Zeros?

Yes, and entirely when they were. There were only minor other options.

Geoff Fisken RNZAF
Richard Douglas 'Doug' Vanderfield RAAF
Alfred W.B. Clare RAAF
Maurice H Holder RAF

All non-Finnish aces in the Buffalo. Several other scored up to four victories, and then there are the Dutch NEI pilots, generally overlooked in English language accounts. Were I researching this question I would contact the Dutch Military Aviation Museum archive.

Other than the Finns, AFAIK, all Buffalo combat was against Japan, with one minor exception of a couple on Crete, with the RN FAA which weren't used effectively, and a sole Belgian example, captured, unused by the Germans in May 1940.

The Wiki page on the Buffalo is pretty comprehensive, with good citations. Also: http://www.warbirdforum.com/notable.htm

Regards,

PS - You mean Aussies (pron with a hard zed not zee) - 'Ozzie' is a rock star.

[P51Mstg]

Ozzie was a rock star........


Mark H

[SaxMan]

The Buffalo did have one other success: As an advanced trainer in the earliest part of the war before enough Wildcats became available. Tom Blackburn talks about using the Buffalo in advanced training in Opa Locka in the early chapers of "The Jolly Rogers". The Buffalo was a good intermediate step between the SNJ and the Wildcat. The effectiveness of the improved training and tactics can be seen in the aerial combat over Guadalcanal. While the Buffalo did not take part in any combat with the US after Miday, it certainly helped hone the Cactus Air Force fighter pilots into the effective force that it was.

[The Inspector]

Ozzie was a rock star........


Mark H

I'd kill to overhear a serious, long conversation between him and Joe Walsh

[Stephan Wilkinson]

You mean Aussies

In the Yew Ess,we call them Ozzies. And 'Strines.

[JDK]

Glad to have been of help.

Thanks SaxMan, that's an interesting point. The problems with Buffalo operations for the Commonwealth forces were many, some not capable of being overcome with any aircraft type in the situation.

There was an interesting article on Brewster I read a while ago, and the 'difficulties' were a lot more than just mismanagement, though that was rife; and The Inspector's take on it seemed close to the truth, IIRC. Also IIRC, there was a forced management change by the US Government EDIT - US Navy.

You mean Aussies

In the Yew Ess,we call them Ozzies. And 'Strines.

Only those who choose to phonetically misspell Aussie - as is obvious from the word's origin. 'Strine is the lingo.

Regards,

[P51Mstg]

Ozzie and Joe Walsh together.... Wow.... I'll bet they did drugs the DEA never even heard of .....

Mark H

[Stephan Wilkinson]

Only those who choose to phonetically misspell Aussie

You got it. It's an outgrowth of the fact that Australia is frequently referred to as "Oz."