"Jinking" on film.

John Dupre · **Posted:** Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:41 am

I know that faced with flak and missiles most combat aircraft practiced jinking, randomly varying altitude, direction and speed to thow off ground based attacks from guns and missiles. Aside from Robert Shaw's famous "tacka tacka tacka" scene in Battle of Britain and maybe Catch 22 it seems to me most movies never really portray it. Can anyone think of movies that did?

The Inspector · **Posted:** Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:16 pm

The Hunters when the HEEEEEROs wuz chasin' da badies whu wuz flyin' F-84F's

Randy Haskin · **Posted:** Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:44 am

John Dupre wrote:

I know that faced with flak and missiles most combat aircraft practiced jinking, randomly varying altitude, direction and speed to thow off ground based attacks from guns and missiles.

By the recent (last 20 years at least) parlance, a "jink" is a last-ditch, full-deflection control move to get out of the way of a shot that is actually in flight and headed toward your aircraft.

Here's a T-38 training video from the offender's point of view showing a defender jinking at 0:04 seconds and again at 0:31 seconds. In both instances the defending aircraft is jinking out of a 20mm gun attack.

Jinks against ground-based threats like AAA and SAMs are not much different, except in direction of maneuver and timing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m56TD6_m5s

airnutz · **Posted:** Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:57 am

I know "Flight of the Intruder" had some aversion stuff in it, but I don't recall how much. Darn, guess I'll have to watch it again...

Mudge · **Posted:** Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:30 am

The Inspector wrote:

The Hunters when the HEEEEEROs wuz chasin' da badies whu wuz flyin' F-84F's

I may have mentioned this before but I remember that movie being made. I was stationed in ABQ at 34th Air Division (Defense) HQ and our radar station in that area (code name XXXXXXXXX) would call in the tracks to us. Since the F-84s were painted pale blue with stars on them, we'd get a NOTAM each time they were shooting flying sequences saying, "Movie filming. Do not fire upon."

Mudge the geezer

Well...I thought it was interesting.

Ken · **Posted:** Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:10 am

Depending on the threat, the aircraft speed, and distance from the threat, real jinking might be perceived by the average audience as boring. It's fine with me if the public and anyone who watches those videos isn't exposed to effective jinking on film.

Ken

SaxMan · **Posted:** Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:12 pm

Wasn't there this small budget alternative film dramatization of the fighter weapons school in Miramar that was shot in the mid-1980s that also had "jinking" in it? It starred Tom Cruise and the dude from ER flying F-14s. Lame script, but some decent flying scenes. The chick was not too bad, either. Rumor has it they were going to come up with a sequel with F-35s or something.

muddyboots · **Posted:** Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:27 pm

Mudge wrote:

The Inspector wrote:

The Hunters when the HEEEEEROs wuz chasin' da badies whu wuz flyin' F-84F's

I may have mentioned this before but I remember that movie being made. I was stationed in ABQ at 34th Air Division (Defense) HQ and our radar station in that area (code name XXXXXXXXX) would call in the tracks to us. Since the F-84s were painted pale blue with stars on them, we'd get a NOTAM each time they were shooting flying sequences saying, "Movie filming. Do not fire upon."

Mudge the geezer

Well...I thought it was interesting.

That is pretty cool, actually.

Randy Haskin · **Posted:** Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:36 pm

SaxMan wrote:

Wasn't there this small budget alternative film dramatization of the fighter weapons school in Miramar that was shot in the mid-1980s that also had "jinking" in it? It starred Tom Cruise and the dude from ER flying F-14s. Lame script, but some decent flying scenes. The chick was not too bad, either. Rumor has it they were going to come up with a sequel with F-35s or something.

I saw a lot of formation flying in that movie, but not much that actually resembled anything remotely like a legitimate tactic.

TROJANII · **Joined:** Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:18 pm **Posts:** 178

Randy Haskin wrote:

SaxMan wrote:

Wasn't there this small budget alternative film dramatization of the fighter weapons school in Miramar that was shot in the mid-1980s that also had "jinking" in it? It starred Tom Cruise and the dude from ER flying F-14s. Lame script, but some decent flying scenes. The chick was not too bad, either. Rumor has it they were going to come up with a sequel with F-35s or something.

I saw a lot of formation flying in that movie, but not much that actually resembled anything remotely like a legitimate tactic.

Wow ..... you sure know how to ruin a good movie.

SaxMan · **Posted:** Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:00 pm

Randy Haskin wrote:

SaxMan wrote:

Wasn't there this small budget alternative film dramatization of the fighter weapons school in Miramar that was shot in the mid-1980s that also had "jinking" in it? It starred Tom Cruise and the dude from ER flying F-14s. Lame script, but some decent flying scenes. The chick was not too bad, either. Rumor has it they were going to come up with a sequel with F-35s or something.

I saw a lot of formation flying in that movie, but not much that actually resembled anything remotely like a legitimate tactic.

Flying inverted at 2 meters separation from your opponent is not a legitimate tactic? :lol:

The Inspector · **Posted:** Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:07 pm

SaxMan wrote:

Randy Haskin wrote:

SaxMan wrote:

Wasn't there this small budget alternative film dramatization of the fighter weapons school in Miramar that was shot in the mid-1980s that also had "jinking" in it? It starred Tom Cruise and the dude from ER flying F-14s. Lame script, but some decent flying scenes. The chick was not too bad, either. Rumor has it they were going to come up with a sequel with F-35s or something.

I saw a lot of formation flying in that movie, but not much that actually resembled anything remotely like a legitimate tactic.

Flying inverted at 2 meters separation from your opponent is not a legitimate tactic? :lol:

It's a shame the 'chick' in that film is as interested in chicks as you are

Tailspin Turtle · **Joined:** Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:11 am **Posts:** 103

Randy Haskin wrote:

I saw a lot of formation flying in that movie, but not much that actually resembled anything remotely like a legitimate tactic.

According to an article about making the movie, the F-14 guys originally insisted that they fly real air-to-air maneuvers, not go Hollywood. Clay Lacey suggested that they go up and be filmed both their way and Hollywood's way from his Learjet. When he showed them the results (dots on the screen going hither and yon versus what is in the movie) the F-14 guys immediately decided that they wanted to go Hollywood.

12XU2A3X3 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:59 pm

Randy Haskin wrote:

John Dupre wrote:

I know that faced with flak and missiles most combat aircraft practiced jinking, randomly varying altitude, direction and speed to thow off ground based attacks from guns and missiles.

By the recent (last 20 years at least) parlance, a "jink" is a last-ditch, full-deflection control move to get out of the way of a shot that is actually in flight and headed toward your aircraft.

Here's a T-38 training video from the offender's point of view showing a defender jinking at 0:04 seconds and again at 0:31 seconds. In both instances the defending aircraft is jinking out of a 20mm gun attack.

Jinks against ground-based threats like AAA and SAMs are not much different, except in direction of maneuver and timing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m56TD6_m5s

when you say "full-deflection" do you mean, no kidding, full deflection, stores configuration be damned or do you still adhere to what the -1 says?

Speedy · **Posted:** Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:13 pm

TROJANII wrote:

Randy Haskin wrote:

SaxMan wrote:

Wasn't there this small budget alternative film dramatization of the fighter weapons school in Miramar that was shot in the mid-1980s that also had "jinking" in it? It starred Tom Cruise and the dude from ER flying F-14s. Lame script, but some decent flying scenes. The chick was not too bad, either. Rumor has it they were going to come up with a sequel with F-35s or something.

I saw a lot of formation flying in that movie, but not much that actually resembled anything remotely like a legitimate tactic.

Wow ..... you sure know how to ruin a good movie.

Remember...he's an Air Force pilot. It's just petty jealousy on his part.

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