F2G Prelim Report

mike furline · **Joined:** Wed May 05, 2004 3:45 pm **Posts:** 2668

http://dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/AccidentRe ... 120000.pdf

C VEICH · **Joined:** Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:40 pm **Posts:** 1476

So he tried to split-s out of a slow roll? Am I reading that correctly?

51fixer · **Posted:** Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:04 pm

C VEICH wrote:

So he tried to split-s out of a slow roll? Am I reading that correctly?

Don't think it was intentional.

marine air · **Posted:** Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:54 pm

WHat they are calling a barrel roll could have been him trying the get the aircraft around while losing power. My dad, a retired airshow pilot said it's possible the engine was losing power, and those folks on the ground weren't necessarily aware of him trying to get it right side up while having a problem.

C VEICH · **Joined:** Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:40 pm **Posts:** 1476

Rich,

I realize it was most likely not intentional. Just wanted to make sure I was understanding the report since it says he impacted upright but nowhere does it talk about him continuing the roll after it stopped at 10 degrees past inverted. A split-s was the only way I could figure for that to happen.

JimH · **Posted:** Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:39 am

The Airport is looking for volunteers to search the area for an SD card that was used for filming from the A/C. If the engine failed I would think he would have finished the roll and made for the nearest runway...atleast that is what I would like to think...but I am not going to speculate any more than that.

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11330

Which direction was he rolling?

51fixer · **Posted:** Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:31 am

bdk wrote:

Which direction was he rolling?

I think the report said roll to the left, stopped inverted +10 degrees, nose pitched down and he attempted to pull through.

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11330

So if power was lost, the rolling moment would be somewhat thwarted?

Wildchild · **Posted:** Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:15 pm

bdk wrote:

So if power was lost, the rolling moment would be somewhat thwarted?

I wouldn't think so... If he lost engine power, he still could have continued the roll. If he lost Flight control surface, then why was he trying to pull down? :shock:

51fixer · **Posted:** Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:48 pm

Wildchild wrote:

bdk wrote:

So if power was lost, the rolling moment would be somewhat thwarted?

I wouldn't think so... If he lost engine power, he still could have continued the roll. If he lost Flight control surface, then why was he trying to pull down? :shock:

What leads you to believe he lost a control surface? If that is what you are inferring.
If he was pulling the nose up in an attempt to recover to the point of pulling vapor trails I would assume he had control authority. In the report the nose was reported 40 degrees down 100' and only 10 degrees at impact.
I suspect the nose fell initially for a undetermined reason. Probably not the pilot just pulling the nose down past vertical from being inverted at low altitude.

PinecastleAAF · **Joined:** Fri May 25, 2007 4:50 pm **Posts:** 1028

I can't access the report. Does it indicate what the altitude was when the roll started?

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11330

I was told that Bob Love always rolled to the right at low altitude so that if the engine failed it would be easier to complete the roll to upright rather than to fight the sudden loss of engine torque, which is like a torque in itself.

Never rolled a Mustang at low altitude and had an engine failure myself, so I have no personal experience and I can't remember where I heard the story.

Ken · **Posted:** Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:28 pm

Some thoughts in no particular order. Some of these will have no answer.

-- Was the barrel roll in question part of his planned routine sequence, if not, what maneuver was called for? What was the next maneuver supposed to be?

-- Was there any ground to air film that we are not privy to?

-- Would Vlado or any of our warbird acro experts care to comment on the effects of torque and/or engine failure while rolling? My assumption is that, other than an engine seizure, there would be little effect, including a prop governor failure ... but I'd rather hear from those with that experience.

-- With the possibility of flight control issues, I'm reminder of the story from Yeager's first book regarding momentary aileron locking due to improperly installed bolts in the F-86. IIRC, he had the presence of mind to push when inverted to avoid descent while he figured out how to roll upright. Not saying this is what happened - I'm saying I'm simply reminded of the story.

-- The prelim report begins by saying that some of the info may later be found to be incorrect and is subject to change. It might be appropriate to keep this in mind.

-- Bob was such an excellent pilot. I'm sure he did the best he could to deal with the information he had in a very limited amount of time. RIP and blue skies, Bob.

Ken

51fixer · **Posted:** Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:40 am

There are some videos of the F2G aerobatics being performed on you tube. I haven't watched them but could shed light on a typical program.

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