Greenland planes P-38, B-17 Any recovery plans?

[Stearman75972]

Was watching the news today and it looks like a lot of the glacier ice is gone. Just wondering if there are any plans by any group to recover the remaining Lost Squadron P-38's or any other planes up there?

[P51Mstg]

I think that most of THAT particular ice is still there........

Mark H

[The Inspector]

As is the Danish Government............................

[Iclo]

Is there an issue about de cleaning of the wreck of B-29 Kee Bird ? I remember having red somewhere that after this recovery attempt or an other, the officials became more hostil about these projects.

[The Inspector]

The hosed up KEEBIRD 'recovery' is exactly what tossed the old shoe in the soup pot, and made the Danes so touchy about wreckoveries by outsiders.

[cooper9411]

A few years ago a group from Pennsylvania started the "Operation Bolero" project in which they were trying to raise the funds needed to recover the remaining 5 P-38's and what was left of the 2 B-17's. I have not heard anything about them or the project for a few years. That type of recovery would take someone with very deep, deep pockets. I'll send an e-mail and see what the status is on the project.

[CoastieJohn]

As I understand it, there was a group up there recently looking around.

Also....the Danes no longer have this particular oversight for Greenland. You have to go thru the Greenland govt now.

[marine air]

I think it's a dead issue. The money spent could more easily be used to have a crashed civilian P-38 or one of the New GUinea recoveries remanufactured.
Roy shofner could have bought three, maybe four flyable P-38's for what it cost to get Glacier Girl retrieved and restored.

[Wildchild]

I love how other countries can tell us if we can or cannot recover USAAF property even though it's not there's... (Danes and Greenland along with the PNG)

[rwdfresno]

I think it's a dead issue. The money spent could more easily be used to have a crashed civilian P-38 or one of the New GUinea recoveries remanufactured.
Roy shofner could have bought three, maybe four flyable P-38's for what it cost to get Glacier Girl retrieved and restored.

When I was a Westpac Alan was showing me one of their large storage rooms full of I think 4 P-38s (crashes) and a stack of P-38 spar cap extrusions they had made. This was completely separate from the 2 P-38s that they have under rebuild right now. They also have extensive tooling and fixtures built for their current P-38 restorations. I imagine we will see fliers resurrected from that cache of parts someday.

[Jollygreenslugg]

I love how other countries can tell us if we can or cannot recover USAAF property even though it's not there's... (Danes and Greenland along with the PNG)

Facepalm.

As the USAAF ceased to exist in 1947, the wrecks you mention are not USAAF property. If you're going to broaden your terms, are you sure that these wrecks are still US property? Does the US government (or any 'part' thereof) have any jurisdiction over ex-USAAF aircraft wrecks which were struck off charge seventy years ago, and are in other countries?

Didn't think so.

Cheers,
Matt

[CoastieJohn]

I love how other countries can tell us if we can or cannot recover USAAF property even though it's not there's... (Danes and Greenland along with the PNG)

Facepalm.

As the USAAF ceased to exist in 1947, the wrecks you mention are not USAAF property. If you're going to broaden your terms, are you sure that these wrecks are still US property? Does the US government (or any 'part' thereof) have any jurisdiction over ex-USAAF aircraft wrecks which were struck off charge seventy years ago, and are in other countries?

Didn't think so.

Cheers,
Matt

Can't speak to the Army (the parent service from the 1947 split) or Air Force policy, but the USCG J2F-4 in Greenland has been designated a war grave and there will not be any non-USCG related salvage permits issued for it. The USCG still claims ownership of it. We have the concurrance of the Greenland govt.

[Jollygreenslugg]

Can't speak to the Army (the parent service from the 1947 split) or Air Force policy, but the USCG J2F-4 in Greenland has been designated a war grave and there will not be any non-USCG related salvage permits issued for it. The USCG still claims ownership of it. We have the concurrance of the Greenland govt.

G'day John,

Thanks for your input. I had read this, and I agree that the commemoration of a site as a war grave gives special cause for the refusal of aircraft wreckage. I was speaking more of ex-USAAF aircraft which were abandoned (without fatalities) after forced landings or failure which prevented them being returned to the US. The sort of airframes that were struck off charge and considered rubbish to be left behind.

I do tire of what could be interpreted as "Ain't no stinkin' furriners gonna tell us what to do with our stuff - even if we said we don't want it sixty-five years ago". Granted, that's a simplification, but I see it enough from some of my own countrymen, and it's ill-informed.

Cheers,
Matt

[CoastieJohn]

Greetings Matt,

No worries. I agree anyone can't just go into a soverign country and start searching or removing aircraft just because another country owned it at one time. Probably not good form to do so. If you get the host govt's approval it should make the process much easier.

Back to Greenland....their new salvage permiting process is very specific on the salvager/remover responsibilities while deployed at a site. If people go up there and leave a mess and/or permanant damage to the surrounding area, it will make it harder for the next crew going up. Not to mention the individuals would have violated their permit agreement and subject to repercussions.

Respectfully....John

[RandolphB]

When the Bolero II operation to fly Miss Velma and Glacier Girl to Europe was going on, they stated during one of their updates that there was a team from another country (maybe Germany?) on the ice attempting to recover more aircraft. They were talking about doing a fly-over of the glacier, but that ended when GG decided the last thing she wanted to do was fly over Greenland again..

Details were on the Airshowbuzz thread when it was all happening...does anybody else remember this?