Question off topic ...

[Mark Allen M]

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Last edited by Mark Allen M on Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

[k5083]

For many of us the story is even more obscure and complicated. The US and Canada are nations of immigrants. My clan emigrated from Poland, Ukraine, Romania and Hungary to Canada in the 1930s. Of course, a lot of relatives remained back there. No doubt many of them fought, on both sides. Some of my kin may even have helped kill others. Apart from one Hussar great-uncle a bit earlier in the century, the military history of my family is separated from me by geographic and language barriers, not to mention poor record-keeping in the countries in question, that I never expect to overcome. So be thankful that your research is as easy as it is! And also that you are spared the ambivalence about who are the "good guys" that comes with a mixed heritage.

One of Hungary's best known Fw 190 pilots happens to share my last name but it is a very common Hungarian name. So we're probably not closely related, but it does make it easy to pick a favorite Focke-Wulf paint scheme.

August

[Mark Allen M]

Indeed August you make great points but doesn't quell the notion I have this type history floating out there I have very little details about. I just find it interesting. As for being related to "good guys" and "bad guys" ... I have a friend who's father is a relative of none other than 'Mr. Stuka' Hans Ulrich Rudel. Very German family and I have learned the hard way not to tread on the subject of the war much. Ouch!, I also have a business partner who's mother grew up in Germany during the war working in a munitions factory. She has many stories of how it felt to be on the other end of allied bombing raids. Not a good experience at all. She was a child back then and really had no choice of what she had to do as I'm sure most youth had little of in Nazi Germany. BTW I have no feelings one way or the other about the past as it happened long before me.

I almost lost my dad and lost two uncles to that terrible war but I also believe I have the heart and conscience to refuse to live my life holding a grudge, of which it wouldn't be constructive or warranted towards anyone anyway. The past is the past and even though I completely understand others who would want to 'never forgive', I luckily am not one of them. I do feel terrible for those who do harbor these emotions as it must to tough to not be able to let go of the past. Just a few cents on that thought.

August do tell on the 190 scheme, or shall I say, "do show" ... like to see it.

[k5083]

Right ... "Whatever you do -- don't mention the war!"



Depictions of the 190 in question vary, with some showing a yellow tail and others the standard camo.





August

[Mark Allen M]

Super interesting 190 scheme, thx for posting. The national insignia seems to be a simple alteration to the Luftwaffe insignia, White cross in a black box. Now wouldn't it be nice if we had several 190 replicas in existance so that we could possibly see some of these type schemes. One can wonder

[Enemy Ace]

Very interesting august.
Did you have the painting of the yellow tail 190 made? Very nice.

Oh and as for Oberst Hans-Ulrich Rudel, Knights Cross of the Iron Cross, with gold oak leaves, swords and diamonds, 2,530 Combat missions, over 500 tanks destroyed, 9 aircraft shot down, ships etc etc etc.
= Good guy in my book.

[k5083]

No, I didn't commission any of this. W-521 is a very oft-depicted machine as Hungarian 190s go, probably second only to W-520. Both aircraft are included on the decal sheet that comes with Hasegawa's 1/72 Hungarian 190F kit, for example. They are depicted in Squadron's In-Action book, available as skins for the Il-2 PC sim, etc., etc.

When I model Luftwaffe types I prefer Hungarian paint schemes because of my heritage, because I like the looks of the red/white/green national marking and because it avoids having to put a swastika on it. While not offensive to me, swastikas require tiresome explanation when models are displayed to folks who aren't military or history buffs.

Hungary's national air museum unfortunately includes no pre-1945 aircraft, so preserved warbirds in Hungarian colors are very rare. The OFMC's Buchon was painted in Hungarian colors for a time, and I liked the scheme.

You're probably onto something with respect to the origin of the Hungarian cross insignia Mark. Prior to WWII, the Hungarian marking was an attractive red/white/green chevron. During the war the black/white cross was introduced, no doubt for consistency with the occupier state of Germany. Postwar the cross went away and the prewar chevron is now worn on the country's MiG-29s and Saab Gripens, sometimes in a grey low-viz version.

Hungarian pilots had a distinguished record as part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire during WWI, not so much during WWII as they were given only limited numbers of whatever the Luftwaffe could spare. If you attended Chino airshows back in the 80s and 90s you might have encountered Mike Karatsonyi, who was always ready to talk about flying and fighting in the Bf 109. I'm finishing a model of his Gustav currently.

Sorry for the thread drift.

August

[Mark Allen M]

If you attended Chino airshows back in the 80s and 90s you might have encountered Mike Karatsonyi, who was always ready to talk about flying and fighting in the Bf 109. I'm finishing a model of his Gustav currently.

I did, but spent little time actually talking to anyone. Still don't. I usually prefered the 'lone wolf' approach of just wandering around looking at the airplanes.

Sorry for the thread drift.

Not at all, actually I was done with my original posts. Rather hear about this kind of history. Good stuff August, interesting indeed.

[Red Baaron]

Rudel, unrepentant Nazi until his death= bad in my book. But I guess if I look past my extended family's unsavory experiences with the SS and death camps, his kind were partially responsible for my family being able to come to America after the war ended.

He did have an impressive military record though.

[Mark Allen M]

I don't mind the 'thread drift' at all and it's not my call as I don't own this website anyway, but the "Rudel's a good guy, bad guy" thing caused a bit of trouble a while back and I'd hate for that to happen again. Wasn't my intention when I brought up the name "Rudel" .. although he certainly was an interesting character and quite the combat pilot, never the less I would be careful pursuing this conversation. IMHO of course.