B-25 Super Rabbit

[pjpahs]

Courtesy Aircraft has listed the B-25 "Super Rabbit" for sale, Accepting offers. The pictures show it dismantled for inspection. What is a B-25 worth? If I had only won that Power Ball lottery I wouldn't have to ask that question.

[PbyCat-Guy]

I have $9,000 lying around

[Myles]

When I win the Mega Millions here in California I'll buy you guys your own B-25. A flyer of course.

Jim

[Fearless Tower]

Courtesy Aircraft has listed the B-25 "Super Rabbit" for sale, Accepting offers. The pictures show it dismantled for inspection. What is a B-25 worth? If I had only won that Power Ball lottery I wouldn't have to ask that question.

Last I checked, airworthy B-25s were selling for $5-600k.

This one looks/feels like a project plane to me based on the photos and description - I would expect it to go for considerably less depending on the actual condition.

Plan on $2500-$3k per hour to operate it.....once it is in good solid airworthy condition.

[mr_warbird]

What is the history of this plane? Was it an air tanker? It seems ever since the Federal Government passed regulations limiting the types of aircraft that can receive contracts to provide forest fire fighting service to newer aircraft, the values of these older WWII bomber planes have really dropped. I think it must have created a glut of these types on the market because the current owners at the time were forced to either buy newer models or just shut down.

There just may not be enough collectors out there to absorb all the larger bomber types as they have become available. I recall an auction a few years ago where a former fire bomber operation was trying to liquidate a bunch of PBYs and they were selling for $150k each in flying condition... I bet 20 years ago the values would have been much higher...

[51fixer]

What is the history of this plane? Was it an air tanker? It seems ever since the Federal Government passed regulations limiting the types of aircraft that can receive contracts to provide forest fire fighting service to newer aircraft, the values of these older WWII bomber planes have really dropped. I think it must have created a glut of these types on the market because the current owners at the time were forced to either buy newer models or just shut down.

There just may not be enough collectors out there to absorb all the larger bomber types as they have become available. I recall an auction a few years ago where a former fire bomber operation was trying to liquidate a bunch of PBYs and they were selling for $150k each in flying condition... I bet 20 years ago the values would have been much higher...

B-25s haven't been used as airtankers in the US since the early 1970s.
In Canada they were retired later.
Bombers have never had the values of the fighters unless there are few in numbers of that type. ie B-24, B-17.
Problem is that they still take thousands of hours to rebuild, restore or repair.
Unless you have a Museum with volunteers or your own shop you will be getting a hefty bill for this type of work.
If you have the deep pockets and love these A/C you absorb the costs.
Others can't.

[Dan Newcomb]

I looked at the pictures and it looks like the fuel bays are open and the outer wing panels removed. The wing attach angles and the fuel bays were the most heavily corroded areas on our plane. Also of concern would be the fuel tanks themselves as to condition. New tanks can be made but they aren't cheep. I've seen "flyers" go for 300 grand on up it will be interesting to see what this bird goes for.

[pjpahs]

Our own aircraft registry has it's history till 2003. Was never a waterbomber, spent a lot of time in S. America , was even a "gate guard" in Bolivia for a spell till rescued and brought north.I couldn't get to the FAA registry, it was shut down on Sunday, but the present owner is in L.A. ,registered to Wirraway Aviation and is certificate issued in 2011 and expires on 8-31-2014, is a Model B-25J .

[Mark_Pilkington]

?? I understood Super Rabbit was a well known flyer?

There was a time in the past in WIX when the name "Super Rabbit" was only slightly less known than "Jack Cook"!

Its disappointing Jack still isnt here to jump in and explain the condition and virtues of his favourite aircraft?

(I still dont really know why Jack isnt here anymore?, anyone got any updates as to what happened?)


Here is his thread on when it was sold to Steve Searle (Wirraway Aviation) and being prepp'd for shipment to Australia, until Steve's health problems and ultimate passing.

http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.o ... 63&start=0

regards

Mark Pilkington

[Steve]

Knew Super Rabbit when Jack Rogers had it at DuPage I don't recall a name on it. It was sold after Jack died along with his P-51, TBM, 2 or 3 Sea Furies.


Stallion Aircraft Inc, Bensenville, IL, June 1993-1995.
- Operated by Jack Rogers/Air Classics Aviation Museum, Chicago-duPage, IL, Apr. 1994.
-- restored to airworthy.
-


Steve

[shelldrake]

The last time I spoke to Steve about this aircraft he was most dissapointed.
He had purchased it believing with a little work it could be flown to Australia, he was excited by that, however, when some preliminary work and repairs
commenced it was found the aircraft was not in as good a condition as portrayed. I think if anyone was to ask, it is pretty much general knowledge regarding corrosion in the Auxillary tank area, the Wing Attach areas are very bad and work needed doing to the spars, engines needed o/h as did the props and there was some issues with the u/c and hydraulics. Overall, Steve was toying with the idea of shipping it, but sadly other events took priority.

Based on what i was told, I suspect this B-25 needs alot of work if not a total restoration and given the point about prices continuing to drop on warbirds, why bother with this one when another is available for $450k neg.


SD

[Jack Cook]

I'm going to post because it concerns an airplane which is quite special to me and the former owner is a dear friend and I want to deflect any and all criticism which may be sent his way.

when some preliminary work and repairs
commenced it was found the aircraft was not in as good a condition as portrayed.

A true statement which needs clarification. Steve's point man here in the US (don't even ask me who!) was
the one who portrayed the a/c has "restored" and sold Steve on the a/c. He sent Steve photos of the a/c all polished. Steve was counting on him and was let down badly. He bought a number of airplanes and most had major issues! Our owner was not involved in the negotiations (he was dealing with, and still is, cancer). His rep. didn't make any claims about the a/c but he didn't correct any bad info going from Steve's guy to Steve (I don't actually know for sure if he knew what was being said and I'm sure he wasn't listening in on the phone conversation).

engines needed o/h as did the props

The R-2600s are low time motors and ran great. When the a/c went to EVG on loan the 2600s were pickled. When it was ferried over to Aurora after the purchase they weren't repickled but rather removed and left has is for the next 5-6 years. So yes they need to be torn down but once again that's on their guys. Has for the props, they are also low time and don't need overhaul but they are due for teardown and inspection per AD.

I think if anyone was to ask, it is pretty much general knowledge regarding corrosion in the Auxillary tank area, the Wing Attach areas are very bad and work needed doing to the spars, engines needed o/h as did the props and there was some issues with the u/c and hydraulics.

The corrosion in the left nacele was well know to all and was inspected by Aero Trader when they did major work on her. They were able to set up a means by which we would know if the nacele corrosion progressed to a unairworthy point and that never happened. Now the question to me is what damaged occured when the a/c was in custody of EVG. Well we know they ripped a whole in the right nacele and parked her in back of the museum in the Oregon rain for months on end. Anyone who knows anything about B-25s knows they soak up water like a sponqe. I opened the crew access hatch once and freak'in just about drowned in the deluge. I have no doubt EVG's lack off care caused many issues but again none of this was communicated to Steve by his man on the scene and in charge of his dealing here.
I also have some opinions about the guys working for Steve on the a/c but not saying a word about that. I feel bad. Bad for Steve Searle rest in peace !! Bad for the a/c and bad for Jim who has rec'v undue critism. Steve got screwed but sadly but his own man whom he placed his trust in. It is a true project and needs a ton of work but it's worthwhile one and just needs the right guy to step up to the plate. He has somewhere between $800K-$900K into the airplane! My bid $115K.
Jack over and out!

[Mark Allen M]

.

Last edited by Mark Allen M on Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Mark_Pilkington]

I'm going to post because it concerns an airplane which is quite special to me and the former owner is a dear friend and I want to deflect any and all criticism which may be sent his way.
Jack over and out!

Smiles - I thought this topic would attract your attention - good to hear from you again Jack, we all miss your posts of photos and debates, hopefully you will come back more often!

regards

Mark Pilkington

[Pogo]

....we all miss your posts of photos and debates, hopefully you will come back more often!

Yep.