WIX Editorial Opinion Piece...

Ztex · **Posted:** Wed May 04, 2011 5:20 pm

WIX Editorial:

I have been a member of the Warbird Information Exchange Forum for several years and I have found it to be a most interesting and entertaining source of aviation information. I have been “invested” in the forum for the past couple of years not as a monetary investor but as time investor, as a moderator and in the last year as part of the Warbird Radio WIX show.
I believe the forum is the premier site on the web for warbird information. It is much timelier, wide ranging and in-depth than any of the magazines we all grew up reading. We owe that status to the people that contribute to the board. It is the people that matter in a forum such as ours. The machines are the focus, but it’s the people that make them go.
All types of people contribute to WIX. The veteran, the enthusiast, researcher, writer, mechanic, pilot and owner are all part of the community. They all have an equal part in the life of the forum, we owe the popularity and vigor of the forum to the ideas and insight that they all add to the life of our little piece of the internet.

I am writing this letter because I have a concern for the health of our forum. I have had face to face conversations with many people over the past few years about this board. I have seen many different reactions to the idea of this forum. Recently I have had conversations with people that own, operate or maintain the aircraft that we all love so much. And to be honest I am embarrassed by the comments that some of these folks have made about WIX.
Some of the people that have contributed in the past will not do so in the future, some that read the board will not contribute and some have only heard of the board but have a negative opinion because of things their friends have endured or seen on WIX. Some of the people could be of great value to our board they are the people in the know. They may have the information that we all crave. And they will not participate because of some of the things that go on here. We are missing out because of our own behavior.
One guy told me something along the lines of “Why would I want to mess with that forum if I have to spend all my time defending the choice of paint colors on a million dollar airplane?” Others have told me they don’t want anything to do with this forum because of the wild speculation that goes on when ever there is some sort of incident.
To me, the proof that many think that WIX is a joke is the thread about the Bearcat nose over in San Antonio. Someone obviously threw out a red herring just to get a reaction. Many did react, exactly on cue, and confirmed the reputation. This is not good. We are running off the exact type of contributor that we want, and for what? Think about it...how many folks that are directly involved in warbirds no longer contribute?

There are many times that petty arguments ensue over things political, personal or just plain old differences in opinion that devolve into vicious and personal attacks. These types of actions are even more detrimental to the board that the anorak minutiae that sometimes gets folks riled up. These actions must stop.

If we want WIX to continue to be the best place for current and important news on warbirds around the world we had better look in the mirror and see our actions as others see them.

Thanks for your time, looking forward to a better tomorrow.

Zane Adams

agent86 · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 3:57 am **Posts:** 926

Mr. Adams, I applaude you fine editorial. your point of view is dead on. The people who recover,restore or fly the planes we all love spend many millions of their hard earned money to make this all possible. The last thing they will contribute to is a bunch of petty arguements concerning paint schemes or people acting like kids and name calling and bickering.I enjoy WIX immensely and it is the real deal as far as whats up in our little hobby.its not a website in name only.I too have behaved on occasion where I wish I had engaged my brain before typing.I also once got a good reaming for posting a pics the owner didnt want seen.But thats another story. Tim

LadyO2Pilot · **Posted:** Wed May 04, 2011 5:48 pm

Thank you, Zane !!!!

Zachary · **Posted:** Wed May 04, 2011 6:15 pm

I'll be the first to admit that I've been involved in some of the "pettiness" on WIX, and I'll gladly explain why. Politics tend to really piss me off. I hate the "left or right and nothing inbetween" political landscape that has evolved over the past couple of decades. Now I realize that the majority of folks on WIX lean to the right when it comes to politics; doesn't bother me one bit. I consider myself middle of the road and have some pretty far right views, as well as some that are far left, but when it's bluntly stated in the rules and through multiple posts by Scott and the moderators that there will be NO politics tolerated, and yet political jabs or sarcasm is allowed to sneak in when it's from a right point of view, I get irritated. It wasn't tolerated when Bill Greenwood made any kind of left leaning statement, and he got hammered for it. He really enjoyed participating on this forum, and I know for a fact that it hurts him to have been suspended and banned, but he broke the rules and is paying the price. It's as it should be. The same standards should apply to everyone on this board, regardless of political leaning. WIX should truly be "fair and balanced."

Now I can already imagine some of you have dismissed me as a "left wing lib" and could care less about what I've just written, but I can assure you that I don't give a hoot about politics; I only want fair treatment for all participants on this board, and it riles me up when I see politics sneak in to posts without any type of sanction.

Humbly,
Zack Baughman

spookythecat · **Posted:** Wed May 04, 2011 6:38 pm

DaveM2 · **Posted:** Wed May 04, 2011 6:39 pm

That is all well and good, I too lament the loss of many stella posters over the past years ( way back to when this was the Warbirds Worldwide Refugee Forum -1996??). We even had the likes of Stephen Grey, Steve Hinton and many others of that ilk posting.
However this is the interweb - a dysfunctional family and nothing will change it. WIX does reasonably well compared to a lot of similar forums, there has been the occasional self serving A-hole looking to disrupt, however most are passionate and contribute well. Forums are about debate as well as info sharing and the former is going to lead to conflict through differing opinions, and let's face it 'gossip' is human nature - nothing anyone says is going to change that either!
If people keep away from politics (tough to do for most Yanks I know :wink:

) which is the main irritation for most here, and qualify their criticisms of paint schemes and the like with reasoned argument and not resort to a scathing attack, I don't see anything wrong with that. I think most appreciate that the owner can do what he or she likes with their aircraft, however they (owners) might also learn something -some do appreciate history, whilst others could care less. That's life.
WIX has been through a lot darker times than now and pulled through, and I am confident that as long as Scott is willing to continue the tough and thankless job of hosting the forum it will continue to be the 'go to' site for anything warbird related.

Dave

67Cougar · **Posted:** Wed May 04, 2011 7:30 pm

My two cents worth (which aren't worth a single penny, really) ...

The problem isn't WIX itself, I think. There have been Warbird politics as long as there have been Warbirds. A high dollar hobby, populated with Type A personalities, and a lot of egos larger than the aircraft's fuel bills make a volatile mix. Dust ups, disagreements, splits always happen. Sometimes they are minor and blow over pretty quick. Sometimes they are permanent, and leave personal scars and scars on the hobby itself. Even within the same organization, it is common for disagreements to arise.

People who are involved with these aircraft on an intimate basis sometimes don't appreciate criticism or even suggestions from 'outsiders'. Folks who devote hundreds of hours and thousands/millions of dollars restoring and operating these aircraft deserve respect from those of us who don't. We can disagree without being ugly. We can disagree without being judgemental. We can disagree without causing hurt or anger. If we can't find a way to do that, then we should just keep it to ourselves.

Warbirds, for some of us, are a hobby. For some of us they are a career. For some of us they are just a point of interest. For some of us, they are a passion. There is room for everyone from all of those categories.

As I said, these issues have been around for 50 years. What has changed is the internet, and forums and avenues of communication such as WIX. In the past, critical comments stayed in a small circle of those who heard them, or heard about them. Now, with a few electrons, anyone wanting to be spiteful can throw it out there for thousands to see instantly - and once its out there, you can't pull it back!

The only real enemies the Warbird communitay face are time, and forces that seek to destroy or restrict the very aircraft we are interested in preserving. We should celebrate the victory of another aircraft rescued to fly again, not nit pick because we think the paint is a half shade of tone off from what it originally was in WWII.

ww2John · **Posted:** Wed May 04, 2011 7:33 pm

I stopped posting months ago because of the exact concerns that started this thread.
I post today in total support of Zane.
There are those who excuse their, or others, extremely poor behavior because "that's the way it is" and because "other forums are worse".
That is a pretty poor excuse.
People say things on forums they would not say face-to-face and I bet your Mother taught you better, taught you to be courteous...I know mine did.
One of my very first posts on WIX was a call for courtesy and civility.
I post today to repeat that call.
I am thankful for every member who humbly and willingly tries to share their knowledge and love of warbirds. I have learned much from your postings and look forward to learning more from you in the future.

Nathan · **Posted:** Wed May 04, 2011 10:10 pm

Historical discussion I always thought was a part of warbirds. That includes figuring out what colors they wore back in the day during their time in the service. For me I want to get as close to those times as I can. Since there is no such thing as a time machine it is important to me to be able to see and touch something that was around during that time. My original interest in aviaiton on the net was of historical chat. I was never really into current warbird subjects until I found wix. On the historical forums I was on we craved for figuring out aircraft colors and markings. I just find it hard to believe that such a simular subject is looked down on here at wix.

Trust me, lots of people want to see accurate schemes. The information IS out there.

Respectfully disagree,
Nathan

gary1954 · **Posted:** Wed May 04, 2011 10:15 pm

well done....This is why I just watch that kind stuff, as in my job, I have to deal with petty crap nearly every day I go to work

rwdfresno · **Posted:** Wed May 04, 2011 11:03 pm

I'll start off by saying I don't want to diminish from the efforts of those who host and moderate this forum (without pay I might add). I don't mean this to detract from the efforts of those who manage that site as I sure appreciate the efforts.

I do think in order for this to be a useful exercise it is important to be as honest as possible with feedback. I do think you will find a relationship between forums with "management" who regularly participate and closely monitor the forum, and those that are left to "stew." Not to say that it is always a good relationship. In the case of WIX I think Scott and those who run the site were rather smart and good stewards, at a point in time.

At one point the decision was made "no politics." Some chose to obey this, and others didn't. For those of us who are passionate about politics, but want to follow the rules it is VERY frustrating because you bite your tongue while the rest of the non-conformists rant on and on until three days later the thread is locked. If you want to maintain order, you need to follow up on the framework that you establish. Action needs to be consistent and swift. Action days later after the "damage" is done and folks are already frustrated isn't a big help.

A forum is much like any organization. Strong leadership will draw a strong base. Leaders help keep the base focused, motivated, and will regularly communicate a vision. They do this by rewarding the base for good behavior (in this case keeping the problem posts/people from detracting from otherwise high quality content). High quality content (and lack of problem posts) is what draws a quality user base. That then feeds on itself because your strong base will develop high quality content which attracts more quality contributors.

There are a handful of contributors that regularly prove that their main motivation is to antagonize and not to contribute. It is fairly obvious to me and I am sure to others as well. Don't let those who claim free speech applies here ruin the site. This is your private property and not a street corner.

Anyway, that is my 2 cents.

-edited some spelling mistakes (yeah there are probably more but I'm tired sorry folks)

CAPFlyer · **Posted:** Wed May 04, 2011 11:19 pm

Zane, while I agree with your post, I have to agree with the poster above me and that part of what is driving people off is that the moderators and administrators (whether through choice or through inability due to their permission levels) are not leading this forum the way it should. There are several posters that I know have been brought to your and others attentions in the recent past whom haven't been dealt with and I know they haven't because they continue to post and do nothing but cause more problems. That they are breaking the letter and spirit of the forum rules isn't in question; why they haven't been dealt with as so many others have is.

So, while it is good to remind us that we need to watch ourselves, I challenge you and the other moderators to take that hard step and start watching yourselves as well and asking honestly if you guys are doing enough to help remove those whom are part of the problem and in several cases have made posts far worse than anything that Bill ever put up and yet they remain here and still posting.

BTW, this is coming from someone who actively moderates a forum and a network that has as many users as we have here and I know how much of a chore it is to do so, even though our daily post count is about half what it is here. I've had to make some tough decisions in the recent weeks because of users who can't seem to understand that the rules must be followed and instead of simply taking a reprimand / warning for what it was, chose to make things worse by calling out me and the other forum staff to the point that we had to remove them completely, even though they were long standing members of the community (as Bill has been) and we didn't want to loose their potential future positive posts because of their recent actions overriding their past great participation.

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Thu May 05, 2011 12:04 am

As one involved a bit in the "incident" on WIX that Zane mentioned above, I can say with near certainty that his comments are spot on and reflect my understanding of the current situation. I've personally become a bit more of a "lurker" of late - partly because of work, but also partly from the atmosphere. I don't think it's really the left vs. right politics so much as it is "fluff," overly-critical commentary, and attitudes.
I also agree that the moderation policies might help curb the problems.

Ryan

Mgawa · **Posted:** Thu May 05, 2011 1:02 am

Compromise is hard to find and I know how hard is the moderating work. No idea what to say here

I only know that I will continue to come here, if the presence of digital painter and plastic modeler mean anything

Hope the things will change on better

Fouga23 · **Posted:** Thu May 05, 2011 3:14 am

Zane, your post is spot on!

Frankly I think part of the solution has to be that the moderators moderate way more then now. Too many times a thread has gone south and nothing was done to close or moderate it. Some people on here have shown behaviour that should not be tolerated on this forum, but got away with it. More then once!
The moderating team should enforce the rules way more strictly then now as some people here obviously don't care for the rules. I know it's an old discussion, but if you look at Bill greenwood, why has he been banned when there are others who do way more damage to WIX get to stay? They do not even get a slap on the wrist. Even though I like Bill, I understand Scott's reasons. But PLEASE enforce the same rules or EVERYBODY!
As for me, I am here for the aircraft. I keep my personal life and opinions to myself. If I want to talk politics, there are other places for that.

An example: why is the "bin laden dead" thread allowed to stay in the WIX hangar? It has nothing to do with warbirds, there is another forum for that topic, and you know it will turn ugly!
If a post attacks someone personal: delete it
If a thread does not belong here or turns ugly: delete it, move it or clean it
If a used attacks someone personally or refused to obey the rules: Strike 1, strike 2, banned!

Lastly, if you need another moderator overhere: sign me up!

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