Warbird Information Exchange

Here are a few photos I thought you guys might like...

These were taken at the Ephrata, WA, airport in Spring 1991. They are the fuselages of PBY-6A N2886D/BuNo 64034 and PBY-5A BuNo 33979. N2886D was destroyed in a 1985 accident while scooping water fighting a fire. Both hulks were owned by Bob Schlaflei, who operated a half dozen PBYs in Eastern Washington as air tankers during the 1980s.

Many thanks for the photos Randy! I love PBY's.

I know the auction ended up frustrating a lot of would be buyers.

Someday I gotta get me one of those big amphibians, but first I have to build a BIG hangar.

Randy, thanks for posting those pictures.
I too have a thing for the pig boat.
Steven-
If you are interested, there is a hanger in Duluth with 2 PBY Projects under restoration and they are always looking for more people to help.

Bryan,

Did the So. St. Paul storm damaged bird get moved to Duluth too? I thought I had seen some parts for her up there, but I didn't know the whole project had been re-located.

I will definitely have to consider lending them a hand on these grand old ladies.....

Randy,

I believe the PBY fuselage in US Navy markings was sold to the New Zealand Catalina Group as a spares source for their flying example, ZK-PBY. From memory it appears similar to the hulk I saw at Ardmore, near Auckland, NZ in 2001 and again in 2003.

Do you know the source of the information that this was once BuNo 33979, as I understood there to be some doubt over this?

Kind regards,

Rhys.

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Bloody nice bloke

There still seems to be uncertainty to the identity of the PBY fuselage now in Ardmore and previously recovered from Moses Lake.

bu 33979 is listed as a Consolidated built PBY-5A It was accepted 11Aug43 and delivered 25Aug43. No record prior to Aug44 when it is reported with AODU-1 in San Diego until Nov44. Thereafter Pool Seattle, Pool FAW-14, NAS Whidbey until assigned to VPB-61 Feb45-Jul45, thence to VPB-91 Aug45-Jan46, after which awaiting reconditioning Seattle & NAF Philadelphia, storage Renton, NARTU Seattle and stricken on 31Dec49


It is sometimes listed as being ZK-PBY - which is also in NZ and is a flying PBV-1 (a Canso RCAF 11054) - also owned by the Catalina Club of NZ, and for which the Ardmore fuselage is held for spares.

(I had wondererd if the Ardmore fuselage is not bu 33979 then I wonder if the identity of this fuselage may instead be 44-33979? a USAAF AO-10? a Vickers built PBV-1 s/n CV-490.)
http://www.pbyrescue.com/Aircraft/serialnumbers.htm

However that would bring into question the remanent USN blue paint scheme as shown in the Moses Lake picture and the apparant in service picture below in the USN at Alaska in 1949.

Of great interest is this picture claiming to be bu33979 in service with the USN but as a PBY-6A which doesnt fit either the USN or USAAF identities, but which strangely appears to have a matching paint scheme to the fuselage at Moses Lake, noting the dark blue USN paint scheme, the 204 white number on the lower forward fuselage and the red propellor line.

http://www.pbyma.org/pby6-a-33979-a.html

The tail and tall fin? of the aircraft cannot be seen to prove it as a PBY-6A, however the bu number does not allign with a PBY-6A or come close to the bu blocks.

It appears to have PBY-5A tailplane tips rather than the pby-6A? tailplane and I therefore suspect that this is indeed the Ardmore fuselage in USN service, and given the bu number is quoted by the crew member in his photo reference, but with apparant model number mis-identification as a PBY-6A?





It would be interesting to see if futher investigation of the Ardmore fuselage had further matches to this 1949 photo, which would seem to firm up it being Consolidated built PBY-5A bu 33979 of the USN just before being stricken in 1949??

regards

Mark Pilkington




note the remanent "2" faintly seen on the lower fuselage, the propellor blade red line and the USN star and bar position.

_________________
20th Century - The Age of Manned Flight
"from Wrights to Armstrong in 66 years -WOW!"

I can also make out a "4", wich would make this indeed 204

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Magister Aviation
It's all in my book

Hi Mark:

My recollection is that Bu33979 was mooted as the identity of the Ephrata hulk now at Ardmore because it was known to have a side code of '204' and a picture had been found of Bu33979 wearing '204' (the 'in-service' picture in your posting in fact). To me, the side code is not a guaranteed tie-up to the serial as I would imagine that they were used more than once on different airframes. It seemed to me therefore that the link between the hulk and Bu33979 was tenuous until proven. In view of the above, the OA-10A 44-33979 can be discounted completely as a red herring.

Before it went to Ephrata, the Catalina hulk was stored, in similar condition, at Hemet in California so perhaps this will enable identification from someone with a long memory or good logbook. One point of interest is that it was suggested to me that, when at Hemet, its tail was used to repair the damaged HVFS PBY-6A N6456C - if this was correct, then it suggested that the stored hulk was a PBY-6A too. Unfortunately, the bow section that would indicate that the hulk was probably originally a PBY-6A (triangular bombardier's window as opposed to rectangular) has been missing for years (I say 'probably' because a small number of late-production -5As at New Orleans had triangular windows too!). Anyone got a photo of it intact at Hemet?

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David Legg
Editor, The Catalina News
The Catalina Society
Author: Consolidated PBY Catalina - The Peacetime Record

David,

From what I can determine, the structural tail differences between a PBY-5A and a 6A are largely a redesigned fin above the stabiliser, redesigned stabiliser, elevators and rudder, in that case if the rear hull was required from behid the blisters back to the fin post couldnt a PBY-5A section be utilised to repair a PBY-6A with the specific 6A items being refitted?? to maintain the tall tail fin?

Is there any likely of an ID plate still being in place in the Ardmore fuselage, or any component data plates with bu numbers on it?

regards

Mark Pilkington

_________________
20th Century - The Age of Manned Flight
"from Wrights to Armstrong in 66 years -WOW!"

Could be Mark but the rumour about the hulk losing its tail in order to repair the HVFS PBY-6A was not substantaited anyway. If it did happen, it may be that the some of the original components were usable from the damaged aircraft. The suggestion made to me however was that if it was a -6A that needed repairing, then the parts to repair it came from a -6A also. Let's hope that an ex-Hemet Valley Flying Service engineer reads this exchange and comments!

As an aside, three PBY-6As were placed on the Canadian civil register years ago and were converted to PBY-5A tail format! These were CF-IZO, CF-IZU and CF-IZZ all of which are still with us (as 'FP535' in Norway, CF-IZU in Canada and EC-FMC in Spain respectively)

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David Legg
Editor, The Catalina News
The Catalina Society
Author: Consolidated PBY Catalina - The Peacetime Record

thanks for that David,

btw what do you think the steel? brackets attachments are forward and aft of the wing strut attach points, at first I thought they were simply lifting cables looped through holes in the structure, when looking at the Moses Lake picture, but they appear to be "military" fittings fitted to the fuselage as seen in the Ardmore picture in the link below, and interestingly a rear set of the same fitting seems visible in the 1949 in-service "204" picture just above the head of the sailor next to the main gear?

Could these fittings confirm the model number? does it confirm the pics are more likely to be the same aircraft.

(For those interested here is a link to a picture of the fuselage under discussion as it sits now at Ardmore.)

regards

Mark Pilkington


http://myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00856035

_________________
20th Century - The Age of Manned Flight
"from Wrights to Armstrong in 66 years -WOW!"

Mark:

Those are the attachment brackets for JATO (Jet Assisted Take Off) bottles used on some PBYs. They do not confirm the model number although it is of interest that Bu33979 has them too in the photo of that aircraft. The fact that the hulk at Hemet (and later Ephrata and Ardmore) still had them in place illustrates that virtually no, if any, civil conversion was carried out on the airframe after it was disposed of by the military.

By the way, I forgot to say that according to the New Zealand Catalina Group member that I contacted some time ago, ther are no identity plates to be found on the hulk that is now in their posession.

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David Legg
Editor, The Catalina News
The Catalina Society
Author: Consolidated PBY Catalina - The Peacetime Record

N2886D was involved in a fatal accident in 1985 when the crew inadveratntly landed on water with the dump doors partially open.


Here is the NTSB report:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_i ... 7289&key=1


Same aircraft 2 years prior to the accident:

When I was up there for the air show back in September, the fuselage of 7179Y had been moved up to the Duluth hangar.

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Dan Johnson

Vernicator

Here is the rear fuselage of N2886D approaching the end of its existance.

regards

Mark Pilkington

_________________
20th Century - The Age of Manned Flight
"from Wrights to Armstrong in 66 years -WOW!"