All I got for Xmas was...an F-4 Phantom resto - Attn Wixers!

Rauhbatz · **Posted:** Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:30 am

Happy holidays Wix'ers....

No doubt as feeling altruistic around the holidays, Im in the early discussions with the airport authority of Newark-Heath (KVTA for those wanting to look at pics of the aircraft - go to the Aviation Works link on airnav.com) Ohio to re-paint a tired F-4 Phantom that is out in front of the airport. I know little of the provance of this aircraft other than it was wheeled over from the former Newark AFB (instrument repair center) where it was a gate guard for many years.

Overall the aircraft is in decent shape; my proposal to the airport authority is to powerwash, strip markings and repaint in a proper SE Asia scheme. I also have access to some helpers within the military interest community at work as well as potentially my local CAF wing and local VFR posts.

A few questions for experienced restoration Wixer's:

+ Any good F-4 sites where if the data plates are still there where I can find the history of the a/c (local airport legend says it saw action in SE Asia)?

+ If I can't find the data plates how should I go about tracking down its history?

+ Did USAF F-4's have tail hooks? I found it odd this a/c was in all gray USAF paint but has a tailhook.

+ The city already has earmarked funds for the paint; any good sites for locating paint schemes

+ Any other helpful paint preparation processes would be welcome (how to deal with minor corroison)

+ Should I get a liability release from the port authority while we are working on the a/c?

As I don't know how long we will be in Ohio I thought it a good idea to create something to leave behind that remembers vets (particulary in SE Asia) and their contributions

Ive done some modest hands resto in the past so any and all feedback welcome as I go down this road. I'm treating this as my largest model painting effort to date (the last being the Monogram B-52 kit).

One quick comment to the esteemed Bill Greenwood; I have not found any indication of former RAF service so no roundels/Ark Royal markings are planned! :lol:

RickH · **Posted:** Sun Dec 26, 2010 10:35 am

Quote:

Did USAF F-4's have tail hooks? I found it odd this a/c was in all gray USAF paint but has a tailhook.

All F-4s have a tail hook, regardless of what model and who operated it.

Any pictures ? Is the aircraft in the same colors it carried when originally put on display ?

Mike Bates · **Posted:** Sun Dec 26, 2010 11:00 am

I live about 40 minutes away. I took these in July of 2008.

Mike

Clifford Bossie · **Posted:** Sun Dec 26, 2010 11:00 am

First off, what is the serial number of the aircraft? The photo I can find shows an F-4C, but I can not read the serial (though it appears to be 64-0683). I am guessing that your question about data plates means that the airframe is not identified. Ther should be a data plate in the cockpit, but with the F-4 I am not sure exactly where.

EDIT: I no sooner posted and found Mike's photos. It is 64-0683.

Once the airframe is identified you can contact the Air Force Historical Research Center for individual aircraft record cards: http://www.afhra.af.mil/questions/topic.asp?id=1146

All USAF F-4s had tail hooks just like USN/USMC. Well, all F-4s had hooks, no matter who flew them.

Here is the basic SEA schematic for the F-4:

SEA wrap around (Lizard)

Euro 1:

Hill scheme:

I have an F-4 photo site but it really needs to be revised:

http://www.angelfire.com/dc/jinxx1/Phan ... ntoms.html

Your other questions are ones I do not have answers to, but I am sure we will run into the same issues in repainting our F-84F:

We are planning a power wash followed by sanding where necessary.

Robbie Stuart · **Posted:** Sun Dec 26, 2010 11:12 am

As far as good a place as any to start with your research, when you find out what the serial number/bureau number is go here http://www.joebaugher.com/ . Good luck.

Robbie

RickH · **Posted:** Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:55 pm

Looks like it had an Air Defense Paint job on it, prior to the Hill Grey scheme.

warbird1 · **Joined:** Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:25 pm **Posts:** 2760

RickH wrote:

Quote:

Did USAF F-4's have tail hooks? I found it odd this a/c was in all gray USAF paint but has a tailhook.

All F-4s have a tail hook, regardless of what model and who operated it.

Any pictures ? Is the aircraft in the same colors it carried when originally put on display ?

And just to piggyback on what everyone else has already stated, yes, all F-4's have tailhooks. There is a reason for that. The tailhook is not just used for carrier operations. At many Air Force bases, particularly ones where the F-4 operated, the A.F. put in place a runway arresting system which could help slow down disabled/emergency aircraft. There are many types of systems that are used for this. For more info, look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_arresting_system

One of the more common types, involves a large cable which is "suspended" above the runway with large "rubber donuts". The tailhook on the F-4 was used as the device to hook onto this cable.

A lot of people don't realize that many Air Force fighters have tailhooks even though they were not built for carrier duty. This is the reason why!

Boneyard · **Joined:** Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:32 am **Posts:** 105

Here is the AFHRA history of 64-0683

Code:

09-APR-1965   McDonnell, St Louis               New Production
15-APR-1965   15th Tactical Fighter Group, MacDill AFB, FL.      Combat
20-JUL-1965   15th Tactical Fighter Group, Ubon RTAFB, Thailand   Combat
01-SEP-1965   6200nd MAT Wing, Tan Son Nhut         Combat
25-JUL-1967   OCAAR, Hill AFB, UT.            Maintenance - Depot
11-OCT-1967   4453rd Combat Crew Training Wing, Davis Monthan AFB   Enroute
01-NOV-1967   4453rd Combat Crew Training Wing, Davis Monthan AFB   Training
19-JUN-1968   OCAAR, Hill AFB, UT.            Maintenance - Depot
12-JUL-1967   4453rd Combat Crew Training Wing, Davis Monthan AFB   Enroute
13-JUL-1967   4453rd Combat Crew Training Wing, Davis Monthan AFB   Training
03-AUG-1968   475th Tactical Fighter Wing, Misawa AB, Japan      Enroute
12-AUG-1968   475th Tactical Fighter Wing, Taegu AB, South Korea   Combat
26-AUG-1968   475th Tactical Fighter Wing, Misawa AB, Japan      Combat
30-AUG-1968   475th Tactical Fighter Wing, Taegu AB, South Korea   Combat
01-OCT-1968   475th Tactical Fighter Wing, Misawa AB, Japan      Combat
30-NOV-1968   475th Tactical Fighter Wing, Taegu AB, South Korea   Combat
10-JAN-1969   475th Tactical Fighter Wing, Misawa AB, Japan      Combat
09-FEB-1969   475th Tactical Fighter Wing, Kunsan AB, South Korea   Combat
09-MAR-1969   475th Tactical Fighter Wing, Misawa AB, Japan      Combat
09-APR-1969   475th Tactical Fighter Wing, Kunsan AB, South Korea   Combat
22-APR-1969   475th Tactical Fighter Wing, Misawa AB, Japan      Combat
12-MAY-1969   475th Tactical Fighter Wing, Taegu AB, South Korea   Combat
08-JUN-1969   475th Tactical Fighter Wing, Misawa AB, Japan      Combat
27-JUN-1969   475th Tactical Fighter Wing, Misawa AB, Japan      Enroute
01-JUL-1969   4453rd Combat Crew Training Wing, Davis Monthan AFB   Enroute
14-JUL-1969   4453rd Combat Crew Training Wing, Davis Monthan AFB   Training
05-NOV-1969   OCAAR, Hill AFB, UT.            Enroute
06-NOV-1969   OCAAR, Hill AFB, UT.            Training
06-NOV-1969   OCAAR, Hill AFB, UT.            Maintenance - Depot
24-MAR-1970   4453rd Combat Crew Training Wing, Davis Monthan AFB   Enroute
28-MAR-1970   4453rd Combat Crew Training Wing, Davis Monthan AFB   Training
07-JUL-1970   4453rd Combat Crew Training Wing, Davis Monthan AFB   Maintenance - Depot
28-JUL-1970   OCAAR, Hill AFB, UT.            Enroute
29-JUL-1970   OCAAR, Hill AFB, UT.            Maintenance - Depot
05-OCT-1970   4453rd Combat Crew Training Wing, Davis Monthan AFB   Enroute
07-OCT-1970   4453rd Combat Crew Training Wing, Davis Monthan AFB   Training
02-DEC-1970   4453rd Combat Crew Training Wing, Davis Monthan AFB   Maintenance
10-DEC-1970   4453rd Combat Crew Training Wing, Davis Monthan AFB   Training
11-DEC-1970   4453rd Combat Crew Training Wing, Davis Monthan AFB   To Museum or School

Looking at the history it looks like this F-4 had a problem back in 1966 or during it's training use that may have eventually led to it's early retirement. Has anyone got any thoughts on this?

If I was repainting it I would do it in the colors of the 15th Tactical Fighter Group, it's original posting.

Rauhbatz · **Posted:** Sun Dec 26, 2010 2:22 pm

Wixer's, thanks very much for the preliminary feedback. First step will be to open the canopy and confirm the s/n. If it is the bird you mention I'll likely pursue the SEA scheme when it was in Vietnam.

One other question on the resto process...should be paint be sealed with some sort of semi-gloss finish? Just curious given the Ohio winters....

Rauhbatz · **Posted:** Sun Dec 26, 2010 2:23 pm

BTW, how does one open the canopy on an F-4?

Rauhbatz · **Posted:** Sun Dec 26, 2010 2:51 pm

I did some research on the 15th tfw...looks like they had the first Mig kills of the war...I wonder if these fellas are still around and whether they flew this bird...

U.S. planes continue heavy raids in South Vietnam and claim to have killed 580 guerrillas. U.S. Phantom jets, escorting fighter-bombers in a raid on the Yen Sen ammunition depot northwest of Hanoi, engaged North Vietnamese MiG-17s. Capt. Thomas S. Roberts with his backseater Capt. Ronald C. Anderson, and Capt. Kenneth E. Holcombe and his backseater Capt. Arthur C. Clark shot down two MiG-17s with Sidewinder missiles. The action marked the first U.S. Air Force air-to-air victories of the Vietnam War.

Dan Jones · **Posted:** Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:28 pm

I think I'd start with building the 1/48 Monogram kit. It'll give you lots of motivation as well as being able to show everyone what the airplane will look like when you're finished. You'll likely find it'll make a good planning tool as well.

Dan

Rauhbatz · **Posted:** Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:03 pm

Wow....didn't know I had a real combat veteran...turns out 64-0683 is only 10 s/n away from the first Mig Kill a/c in SEA.

http://www.markstyling.com/usaf_f_4s1.htm

Thanks to all who responded...I'll let everyone know how my proposal goes...might just need to paint it grey...

Rauhbatz · **Posted:** Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:04 pm

Thanks Dan....a great tip. And it should help with getting support for funding and support....

Clifford Bossie · **Posted:** Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:06 pm

Rauhbatz wrote:

BTW, how does one open the canopy on an F-4?

You might want to contact the Air Force Museum and find the best way to do that. By the way, the data plate should be in the front cockpit, rt side, about where the pilot's knee would be. The serial should also be somewhwere on all the major components and probably even stenciled inside access panels.

683 was displayed outside at the Air Force Museum, wearing spurious markings during the 1980s. It was replaced when 64-0829 became available. As 829 was Old's Scat 27 and had more history, 683 went elsewhere.

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All I got for Xmas was...an F-4 Phantom resto - Attn Wixers!

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