PBY flight engineer?

Stephan Wilkinson · **Joined:** Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:23 am **Posts:** 699

The PBY originally had a flight engineer's station up in the center pylon, with windows on each side. Do PBYs to this day require an F/E, or was there a time when that function was phased out?

bombadier29 · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:17 pm **Posts:** 272

Stephan Wilkinson wrote:

The PBY originally had a flight engineer's station up in the center pylon, with windows on each side. Do PBYs to this day require an F/E, or was there a time when that function was phased out?

No FE is required on PBYs now and they haven't been for as long as I remember. I would guess it changed around the time the first PBYs went on the civil registry. Everything important was moved down to the cockpit.

JDK · **Posted:** Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:06 pm

bombadier29 wrote:

No FE is required on PBYs now and they haven't been for as long as I remember. I would guess it changed around the time the first PBYs went on the civil registry. Everything important was moved down to the cockpit.

Interesting question. No modern Cats I'm aware of use a pylon-located F/E, as bombadier29's said; however there were numerous PBYs and Cats on W.W.II wartime civil registers (Qantas and BOAC for two) and I suspect these had F/Es as normal (but I haven't checked) so better to say postwar change, rather than a civil adaptation, as I believe the F/E role remained through the war in most users crewing.

Better info (David Legg - where are you?) welcome!

Regards,

helinut · **Joined:** Tue May 25, 2004 11:57 am **Posts:** 168

ACAM,s PBY had a f/e postion and a f/e on board when it crashed in Oct, of 1957 in labrador, and was recovered in oct of1986

David Legg · **Joined:** Sun Dec 31, 2006 1:07 pm **Posts:** 338

JDK wrote:

Interesting question. No modern Cats I'm aware of use a pylon-located F/E, as bombadier29's said; however there were numerous PBYs and Cats on W.W.II wartime civil registers (Qantas and BOAC for two) and I suspect these had F/Es as normal (but I haven't checked) so better to say postwar change, rather than a civil adaptation, as I believe the F/E role remained through the war in most users crewing.

Better info (David Legg - where are you?) welcome!

Regards,

This is an interesting area and one I have not researched to any degree. James is quite right that the QEA/BOAC Double Sunrise Cats would have retained the FE position. Regarding other RAF Catalinas, off the top of my head I can only think of three that went on to have civil careers, one in Bermuda which I suspect kept the FE position and two in Iceland, both MkIII amphibians. When I was in Iceland recently speaking to some veteran commercial Catalina pilots there, I am sure one of them said the FE position was retained. I would imagine that Catalinas that continued in military service post-war with the US forces, RAAF and RNZAF retained the FE position but I am less sure about RCAF aircraft as quite a few of these continued in military service until the very late-1950s and underwent substantial modification.

The commercial Landseaire conversion certainly did away with the FE position amd many other civil Catalinas were similarly converted although a quick look at the Model 28-5ACF TC does not show that the removal of the FE position was mandatory.

The first Catalina I flew in regularly (the recently scrapped VP-BPS ex-BuAer46633) still had a rudimentary seat in the pylon which was fun to fly in although was not supposed to be used during landing and take off. Others I have flown in including the current G-PBYA have not had seats there.

So, in summary, an area that needs more research.

The Inspector · **Posted:** Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:49 pm

It would raise some eyebrows if it was on your license,
Single Engine land-Multi Engine land-DC-3- PBY Flight Engineer

David Legg · **Joined:** Sun Dec 31, 2006 1:07 pm **Posts:** 338

David Legg wrote:

.....but I am less sure about RCAF aircraft as quite a few of these continued in military service until the very late-1950s and underwent substantial modification.

I have just looked at my copy of the RCAF Training Command Canso Flying Manual dated March 1959 which relates to Canso A amphibians and it is clear that even at that late stage the Flight Engineer still had his position in the pylon.

cwmc · **Joined:** Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:43 am **Posts:** 322

The Inspector wrote:

It would raise some eyebrows if it was on your license,
Single Engine land-Multi Engine land-DC-3- PBY Flight Engineer

Wouldn't one need to have a Flight Engineer, Reciprocating? My FE ticket has no type specific info, but is Turbojet, so no drama or coolness.
Chris...

skooterN2767K · **Posted:** Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:25 pm

JAARS opperated a PBY for several years and had a flight engineer. I need to add on my civil flight engineer rating. Military FE only right now. Would look cool on my Civil cert.... COM SEL & MEL, LRJET. USAF C-130E/H flight engineer

The Inspector · **Posted:** Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:24 pm

DC-3 used to be a separate rating from MEL and isn't FE Turbine type specific?

Speedy · **Posted:** Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:13 pm

cwmc wrote:

The Inspector wrote:

It would raise some eyebrows if it was on your license,
Single Engine land-Multi Engine land-DC-3- PBY Flight Engineer

Wouldn't one need to have a Flight Engineer, Reciprocating? My FE ticket has no type specific info, but is Turbojet, so no drama or coolness.
Chris...

Is that when you were flying FE for the Wright Brothers, Chris?

Sorry..... :drink3:

BAJ · **Joined:** Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:14 pm **Posts:** 126

David Legg wrote:

JDK wrote:

Interesting question. No modern Cats I'm aware of use a pylon-located F/E, as bombadier29's said; however there were numerous PBYs and Cats on W.W.II wartime civil registers (Qantas and BOAC for two) and I suspect these had F/Es as normal (but I haven't checked) so better to say postwar change, rather than a civil adaptation, as I believe the F/E role remained through the war in most users crewing.

Better info (David Legg - where are you?) welcome!

Regards,

This is an interesting area and one I have not researched to any degree. James is quite right that the QEA/BOAC Double Sunrise Cats would have retained the FE position. Regarding other RAF Catalinas, off the top of my head I can only think of three that went on to have civil careers, one in Bermuda which I suspect kept the FE position and two in Iceland, both MkIII amphibians. When I was in Iceland recently speaking to some veteran commercial Catalina pilots there, I am sure one of them said the FE position was retained. I would imagine that Catalinas that continued in military service post-war with the US forces, RAAF and RNZAF retained the FE position but I am less sure about RCAF aircraft as quite a few of these continued in military service until the very late-1950s and underwent substantial modification.

The commercial Landseaire conversion certainly did away with the FE position amd many other civil Catalinas were similarly converted although a quick look at the Model 28-5ACF TC does not show that the removal of the FE position was mandatory.

The first Catalina I flew in regularly (the recently scrapped VP-BPS ex-BuAer46633) still had a rudimentary seat in the pylon which was fun to fly in although was not supposed to be used during landing and take off. Others I have flown in including the current G-PBYA have not had seats there.

So, in summary, an area that needs more research.

Hi all, the HARS Catalina VH-PBZ in Australia has the flight engineers compartment still active. New re calibrated fuel flow meters have recently been re-installed with the current Flight Engineer now also responsible for firing the fire extinguishers which HARS have now fitted as an update mod.

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