Japanese Corporations buying and hoarding warbirds?

[Enemy Ace]

I remember hearing back in the late 80's that Japanese corporations were buying up warbirds and having them stored as investments.
Does anyone know if there was any truth to that? is there a warehouse or two full of airplanes somewhere in cold storage? At the time I thought it was weird, but now it looks like it may have been a really smart financial move if it was true. Or is it just urban legend?

[gregv]

Interesting topic, especially considering that some Japanese corps. did start buying collectible automobiles during the 80's and 90's and storing them as investments. However, even those cars seem to see the light of day every once in a while, and there is trading amongst that stock. I recall reading a recent article about a 60's Ford GT (aka GT40, but apparently never called that) that was at one time just such an investment but had moved on to new ownership. You also have to take into account when the bottom dropped out of the classic high-end car market in the late 90's, like when Ferrari 250 GTO's were going for $10 mil, then almost overnight the prices dropped to $3 to 4 mil; ouch...

So basically if it were true one would think that there would have been some photos or news in the intervening years.

You never know though.....

greg v.

[Warbird Kid]

I remember reading something about the last KI-84 (that POF owned at the time) somehow found its way to an individual in Japan that operated the aircraft for a few years until the government started cracking down on civil aviation. Keep in mind this was probably the 70's.

Flash forward to a year ago or so, someone here posted some pictures of an exhibit/shrine whatever you want to call it in Japan that displayed the Frank along with a Tony, Zero (I think) and maybe a couple of other aircraft.

(On a side note what is the current environment with warbirds and operating them in Japan? I find it very interesting that out of every major country that participated in WWII, Japan is the only one that doesn't have any vintage aircraft left in the skies. Any ideas as to why?)

[marine air]

I believe Gen. MacArthur and the U.S. rewrote their constitution and strictly forbid military weapons other than self defense, etc. If you go back and look at their history they were a barbaric military nation.

[k5083]

Significant WWII-era airframes are rare enough that they are easy to keep track of, like paintings by the old masters. You couldn't collect really significant airframes in secret by the 1980s when their value was acknowledged. Paul Allen was the only one to even attempt to do, and he didn't fool anyone. Neither the Ki-84, the Ki-61, or any of the airframes currently known to be in Japan ever really dropped out of sight.

I believe Gen. MacArthur and the U.S. rewrote their constitution and strictly forbid military weapons other than self defense, etc. If you go back and look at their history they were a barbaric military nation.

Ignorant xenophobia. If you go back and look at US history it is equally barbaric and military, or more so. The US merely exercised the winner's prerogative over Japan.

August

[Hal B]

I believe Gen. MacArthur and the U.S. rewrote their constitution and strictly forbid military weapons other than self defense, etc. If you go back and look at their history they were a barbaric military nation.

Ignorant xenophobia. If you go back and look at US history it is equally barbaric and military, or more so. The US merely exercised the winner's prerogative over Japan.

August

Ouch, you certainly got us there, August!

[k5083]

To clarify, I'm not saying the US is bad. Just that Japan, over the course of its history, has not been especially barbaric or militaristic, and the US has been no better than Japan.

August

[hang the expense]

To clarify, I'm not saying the US is bad. Just that Japan, over the course of its history, has not been especially barbaric or militaristic, and the US has been no better than Japan.
I aint letting this go by without a response.Historically,YOU ARE A COMPLETE individual of questionable judgement
August

[tom d. friedman]

the japanese museums & private sector enthusiasts over their have been very aggressive buyers on ebay & other venues for as long as i can remember!! any ww 2 japanese warbird item i've sold was snapped up faster than a hibachi chef cuts veggies!! i've never lost a dime on any japanese warbird memorabilia. it is all investment grade stuff.

[richkolasa]

Ignorant xenophobia. If you go back and look at US history it is equally barbaric and military, or more so. The US merely exercised the winner's prerogative over Japan.

August

Yeah, why don't you ask the Chinese about the veracity of your OPINION there, sparky?

Rich

[JBoyle]

Just that Japan, over the course of its history, has not been especially barbaric or militaristic, and the US has been no better than Japan.
August

How much Japanese history have you studied?
I have to disagree. The Japanese culture has always been more militaristic. I don't recall a US period equaling the samurai. And comparing the US frontier period with the samurai won't cut it. The samurai period lasted several hundred years, whereas the "western" period we see in films was short and regionalized.

And we never had the idea of seppuku in our society. That's pretty hard core.
Though not strictly militaristic or barbaric, you don't find many Americans willing to disembowel themselves to make a point.
Or, sticking strictly to combat, what we call "Kamikaze" what they called "tokubetsu kōgeki tai " or special attack unit. Most of our pilots were expected to land at the end of their mission.

As far as barbaric...first you have to define it.
But there is no way you can compare some of the actions of the Japanese to civilians to what was done by America, the biological warfare Unit 731 in Manchukuo, the Nanking Massacre, the treatment of allied POWs....
I'm sure you'll have a disagreement from some folks here if you try to equate those with B-29 raids.

And in case someone is tempted to call me an ignorant racist xenophobe, in addition to studying Japanese history in both undergraduate and grad school (though I did not major in it), I have a huge respect for the Japanese and their culture. Many years ago I lived there, and more recently, was engaged to an American woman of Japanese ancestry.

[JDK]

Well that went north fast.

The answer to the original question is 'No'. There have been a couple of personal collectors in Japan, and museums (like everywhere else) but the celebration of flying ex-military weaponry doesn't exist in Japan in the way it does elsewhere.

Having tracked warbirds for years, I can't think of anything fitting the question's scenario.

Warbird kid, you'll note that the attitudes of the ex-Axis countries is somewhat different to the victors in W.W.II towards warbirds, as you'd expect it to be. There is a great deal of ambivalence towards W.W.II aircraft in Germany, and a much more complex relationship in Italy. Total axis-designed and operated frontline warbirds airworthy in all three countries can be counted on the fingers of both hands.

I'm no expert on Japan (nor do I propose to insult others to insulate my own narrow prejudices) but my understanding is that the Japanese have a very different attitude to old junk and new toys than some of us do.

Regards,

[Brad]

To clarify, I'm not saying the US is bad. Just that Japan, over the course of its history, has not been especially barbaric or militaristic, and the US has been no better than Japan.

August

Deleted..no sense in being rude.

Last edited by Brad on Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[k5083]

Ignorant xenophobia. If you go back and look at US history it is equally barbaric and military, or more so. The US merely exercised the winner's prerogative over Japan.

August

Yeah, why don't you ask the Chinese about the veracity of your OPINION there, sparky?

Rich

Sure, and we'll ask the native Americans about the other side. Oh, I forgot, they're dead by systematic genocide which makes the Rape of Nanjing look like a frat party.

The Japanese have been bad at times and a civilizing influence at other times. They have some things to be very proud of and some things to be ashamed of. EXACTLY LIKE THE UNITED STATES. Come to grips with your own history before you start knocking other countries there, Betsy.

August

[JBoyle]

The answer to the original question is 'No'. There have been a couple of personal collectors in Japan, and museums (like everywhere else) but the celebration of flying ex-military weaponry doesn't exist in Japan in the way it does elsewhere. ... Regards,

Emphasis added.

Of course, Japan doesn't have a flying warbird industry like the US, UK or Australia/New Zealand but that probably has more to do with the lack of general aviation activity in the country than a lack of interest or pride in their past technological accomplishements.

But to clearify your point, just because they aren't flying doesn't mean they don't recognize or celebrate (to use your word) their wartime aircraft accomplisments.
Japan has something like 19 WWII era aircraft (and a number of replicas) on display.*
At least two of those, a Yokosuka "Judy" and and a Ohka replica are housed at the Yasukuni Shine in Tokyo.
The combination of preserving an aircraft at a (presumably) religious shine to the dead seems to be unique to Japan.
Likewise, two airframes are listed as displayed at the "Kamikaze" Museum.
One A6M5 is at the Mitsubishi plant in Nagoya...so the Japanese do have a appreciation of their past accomplishments.


*Per "Broken Wings of the Samurai" by Robert C. Mikesh, Naval Institute Press, 1993