T33 operating costs

rreis · **Joined:** Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:42 pm **Posts:** 441

Hi all

Could someone give me, even crude, estimation of what would be the operating costs of a T33?

best regards,

T33driver · **Posted:** Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:18 am

For typical warbird flying season (40-50 hours flown annually) around $2000-2200/hour or so assuming fuel cost approximately $4/gal and nothing breaks or fails...ever. Engines and accessories like fuel pumps will gradually become more scarce and costly so this is a momentary cost snapshot.

rreis · **Joined:** Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:42 pm **Posts:** 441

Thx. Do you know if there are any T33 operating the european circuit?

mustanglover · **Posted:** Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:40 pm

So Paul, do you mix your fuel or just go straight Jet A?

T33driver · **Posted:** Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:44 pm

mustanglover wrote:

So Paul, do you mix your fuel or just go straight Jet A?

I use straight Jet A which is sorta like running your street rod on a mix of moonshine and bong water...it'll burn, but fuel nozzles coke up quicker and gotta be removed for cleaning every 130 hours or less compared to the old JP 4 which some jet warbird guys replicate by mixing 10-20% 100LL with Jet A.

mustanglover · **Posted:** Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:39 pm

T33driver wrote:

mustanglover wrote:

So Paul, do you mix your fuel or just go straight Jet A?

I use straight Jet A which is sorta like running your street rod on a mix of moonshine and bong water...it'll burn, but fuel nozzles coke up quicker and gotta be removed for cleaning every 130 hours or less compared to the old JP 4 which some jet warbird guys replicate by mixing 10-20% 100LL with Jet A.

Yeah just wondering, we mixed our Jet A and 100LL and it seemed to run real clean. Just makes that gallon of fuel cost more I guess.

T33driver · **Posted:** Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:27 pm

mustanglover wrote:

T33driver wrote:

mustanglover wrote:

So Paul, do you mix your fuel or just go straight Jet A?

I use straight Jet A which is sorta like running your street rod on a mix of moonshine and bong water...it'll burn, but fuel nozzles coke up quicker and gotta be removed for cleaning every 130 hours or less compared to the old JP 4 which some jet warbird guys replicate by mixing 10-20% 100LL with Jet A.

Yeah just wondering, we mixed our Jet A and 100LL and it seemed to run real clean. Just makes that gallon of fuel cost more I guess.

There is a jet fuel additive that will likely be coming to market soon that when added in very small amounts, will alter the combustion process so that fuel nozzle coking and smoky exhaust will be all but eliminated. I'm told preliminary trials with a jet warbird also showed an 8% improvement in fuel efficiency and elimination of smoky exhaust from an engine famous for leaving it's mark in the sky.

JDK · **Posted:** Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:35 pm

rreis wrote:

Thx. Do you know if there are any T33 operating the european circuit?

The last T-33 I recall on the European circuit was G-TBRD (actually a Canadair machine) operated from Duxford, but wrecked in a non-fatal accident in 2006.

Other than Ormond Haydon Ballie's machines in the 70s-80s, that's all I can think of, but I may be missing something!

rreis · **Joined:** Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:42 pm **Posts:** 441

JDK wrote:

rreis wrote:

Thx. Do you know if there are any T33 operating the european circuit?

The last T-33 I recall on the European circuit was G-TBRD (actually a Canadair machine) operated from Duxford, but wrecked in a non-fatal accident in 2006.

Other than Ormond Haydon Ballie's machines in the 70s-80s, that's all I can think of, but I may be missing something!

thx JDK!

EDowning · **Posted:** Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:23 pm

Hey Paul

I don't know much about Jet A. We used JP-4 in the Apachce and I thought Jet A and JP-4 were the same. Shows what I know. Just curious, why WOULDN'T someone want to mix the 100LL and Jet-A for the cleaner burn? Cost only?

Eric

T33driver · **Posted:** Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:42 pm

EDowning wrote:

Hey Paul

I don't know much about Jet A. We used JP-4 in the Apachce and I thought Jet A and JP-4 were the same. Shows what I know. Just curious, why WOULDN'T someone want to mix the 100LL and Jet-A for the cleaner burn? Cost only?

Eric

Eric,

Depending who you talk to, the benefit of adding 100LL to Jet A to replicate the cleaner burning "wide cut" JP4 varies as does the percentage of 100LL mix different jet warbird operators "cut" into Jet-A. The benefits are cleaner fuel nozzles and better relight characteristics in the event of a flameout. Down side is mixing makes it less stable/safe. The JP-4 aka NATO F-40 we remember from the military is essentially a 65:35 mixture of heavy naphtha fraction (like gasoline) and kerosene. When using straight kerosene civilian Jet A (similar to military's JP-8) in place of a JP-4 , it may be necessary to manually adjust fuel control units to avoid exceeding engine operating limits, particularly RPM and EGT since the fuel control units on vintage US/NATO jet warbirds are typically set to the specific gravity of JP-4. Jet warbird maintenance guys should reference flight manuals and engine tech orders for specific operation and adjustment instructions if necessary since Jet-A is likely classified as an "alternate fuel". On my Rolls Royce Nene 10, the fuel control unit was set for JP-4, but there isn't much impact on RPM and EGT so the maintenance guys didn't tinker with it. Probably more info than you wanted, but what the he11...