NASM's Helldiver on the move!

Pat Carry · **Posted:** Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:17 pm

According to the latest NASM's e-newsletter, the Helldiver will be transported to the new restoration shop at Udvar Hazy before the end of the month possibly next week. The accompanying photo they show of the Helldiver shows it to be in good shape. Is there really alot of restoration that needs to be done to it?

Owen Miller · **Joined:** Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:28 pm **Posts:** 614

This is really good news. The Helldiver was in great shape
when it left NNAM headed to NASM. All they really had to
do was put it back together and display it. I can't imagine
why it's taken this long.

The restoration bar has been raised since the Helldiver was
done, so I suspect they will do some work on her. The main
thing, as I enderstand it, is to mark it as ADM Don Engen's
bird to serve as a memorial to him. A good tribute to a great
aviator.....

Pat Carry · **Posted:** Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:35 am

Owen, I cant understand why the NASM took the Helldiver back only to have it sit in storage at Garber for what 5 years.

TimAPNY · **Posted:** Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:42 pm

Hurry Up and Wait. It is the backbone of all things the Government has its fingers in.

Great news that it is getting ready to be put on display again. I so need to get to the NASM soon.

Tim

RMAllnutt · **Posted:** Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:25 pm

Owen Miller wrote:

This is really good news. The Helldiver was in great shape
when it left NNAM headed to NASM. All they really had to
do was put it back together and display it. I can't imagine
why it's taken this long.

The restoration bar has been raised since the Helldiver was
done, so I suspect they will do some work on her. The main
thing, as I enderstand it, is to mark it as ADM Don Engen's
bird to serve as a memorial to him. A good tribute to a great
aviator.....

Owen, from what I've been told, there is actually quite a lot which needs doing to the Helldiver. It may look in great shape externally, but internally, there's a lot more that has to be addressed.

Cheers,
Richard

Owen Miller · **Joined:** Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:28 pm **Posts:** 614

Such as, Richard?? I've been around it, been in it, peered into
panels for a good 15+ years. Not saying I can't be wrong, but
please be specific.

I maintain that NASM could have put it back together five
years ago upon arrival and displayed it well.

RMAllnutt · **Posted:** Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:15 am

Owen Miller wrote:

Such as, Richard?? I've been around it, been in it, peered into
panels for a good 15+ years. Not saying I can't be wrong, but
please be specific.

I maintain that NASM could have put it back together five
years ago upon arrival and displayed it well.

Corrosion in hidden places. I was at Silver Hill and overheard the restoration guys talking about it, literally as they were taking a break from working on her. They didn't say specifically where, but said there was a lot more than they'd expected. I'm not sure why she wasn't put on display, but you must remember that every time an aircraft is assembled and disassembled there are risks, large and small, of damage. Perhaps that was the reason, but not knowing for sure, I couldn't comment with full confidence. These guys do an incredible amount of amazing work, with very limited resources. They're standards are at the very highest level too, which is often why it takes longer to get things done than other museums.

All the best,
Richard

Owen Miller · **Joined:** Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:28 pm **Posts:** 614

Well, never say never........when I last saw her being disassembled
and crated for transport and so on I saw nothing to indicate that.
It is achademic at this point..........

I look forward to the day when an SB2C is displayed both at NNAM
and NASM U-H.

old iron · **Posted:** Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:23 pm

According to this nasm link http://www.nasm.si.edu/collections/artifact.cfm?id=A19610118000, the Helldiver has already been moved to UH.

I have also heard that the NMNA work on the Helldiver was external-cosmetic only and that there was a lot of interior needed.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:20 pm

When it comes to restoration the NASM is tops, when it comes to preserving items in storage, not so much.

DaveM2 · **Posted:** Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:28 pm

mustangdriver wrote:

When it comes to restoration the NASM is tops, when it comes to preserving items in storage, not so much.

Care to explain that last statement a bit more?

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:45 pm

When it comes to restoration the NASM does a beautiful job. however there are things that I have seen that i don't like or agree with. For example many airraft flew into the museum, and then were placed on outdoor display for years and now need full restorations. Swoose was ran into with a truck, and that was years after being on outdoor display. There is alot of corrosion issues with it. Flack Bait is still being damaged by visitors coming through the museum as they can touch a part of the original WWII paint.
As for the Helldiver, I don't know, never saw it. But I think the main reason it is not on display has more to do with the paint change than anything else.

DaveM2 · **Posted:** Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:37 pm

And where should they have stored them when the indoor areas were already crammed with dozens of other aircraft? NMUSAF stored many of their aircraft outdoors in the early years as well, even smaller fighter aircraft like the George. Museums cannot store everything in climate controlled conditions especially when we are talking about the 60-70s era. That they are saved at all is the main thing-that they need a lot more restoration when their time comes is the reality of the situation and will continue to be the case at nearly every musuem on the planet. Whether we agree with it or not doesn't change the reality of it-pony up the money to build storage hangars and it might -anything else is pye in the sky.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:53 pm

What does that have to do with proper handling of the aircraft in storage, and artifacts on display being damaged every day. Not that the NMUSAF has anything to do in this arguement, but you brought up their collection being left out side when they didn't have a building. You are dating that back to the 70's. Flack Bait is happening now. What about their B-25 that was flown to the museum?
I am not bashing the NASM, their restorations are top notch. I just have a feeling that the story about the Helldiver is sort of false. I don't mean that aimed at the WIX poster but at the workers on the plane. It takes away from the work that the NMNA did on the aircraft. Ever see pics of it when it first arrived at the NMNA? She wasn't pretty. Now since the time it was first restored I am sure there have been many new improvements made in restorations, and I am a fan of them updating the SB2C to those standards. Just not at the expense of saying, "The first restoration wasn't good enough."

DaveM2 · **Posted:** Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:42 pm

You said you haven't seen the Helldiver so why comment about its condition-many aircraft are restored, but not to NASM standards. Paul Allen does the same with aircraft he secures, even if they are airworthy. They a stripped and restored again to the nth degree.
'Observations' have little to do with 'first hand' knowledge of a particular aircraft and how it has been handled. What is your experience at Garber? Have you talked to anyone there about storage problems over previous years?
NNMA did a great job with the resources and time they had, however NASM obviously think it needs more work-their aircraft -their perogative. It doesn't mean they are not appeciative of what effort NNMA put into it, as you seem to be implying. To NASM it is the 'last' survivor and as a consequence will get the '100' years treatment.
Flak Bait-I agree that is poorly managed.

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NASM's Helldiver on the move!

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