New P-40 Down Under

[shelldrake]

Hi All

just been going through the Civil register and saw this new P40E registration.

VH AJY

Power Driven Aeroplane with tailwheel-retractable landing gear
Single Piston engine

Manufacturer: CURTISS WRIGHT CORP
Model: P-40E
Serial number: 41-35974
Aircraft first registered in Australia: 12 August 2009

Full Registration

Seems like another rebuild is on the way. Details of owner listed but I was hoping someone could maybe add some details on the history of this bird via its US serial.

Shelldrake
(away from home..........again)

[Lightning]

Howdy All

This aircraft is an ex RAAF P-40E s/n. 41-35974 (A29-99)
saw service with 75, 82 and 2 OTU
Crash landed at Mildura,Vic 0n 15/05/45 and consequently converted to components (well thats what the official history card states)
ADF Serial Number Website

Lightning

[paulmcmillan]

Interesting this is supposed to be RAAF A29-99 (ex RAF ET620) and ex USAAF 41-35974

It was a P-40E-1 (Kittyhawk Mk.Ia) and had the name "Cleopatra" and was last heard of after an accident on 15/5/45 where it crash landed at Mildura, Vic and consequently converted to components


http://www.adf-serials.com/2a29-E.shtml

[paulmcmillan]

If anyone wants to see the record card for this one


http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/imagine ... 3&I=1&SE=1

The View Digital Copy

Records 193, 194, 195

[Mark_Pilkington]

.
The aircraft serial number is that of RAAF P-40E A29-99 that crashed at Mildura in 1945 and was converted to components, it flew as "Cleopatra" with 75 Squadron at Milne Bay, quite an historic airframe.

I am unsure of its survival and recovery story?

It would seem likely to end up in South Australia based on the owners location.




Regards

Mark Pilkington

[Oscar Duck]

Cool indeed. Mark how is yours coming along?

[Mark_Pilkington]

Cool indeed. Mark how is yours coming along?

hello Oscar, (hows the A-26 coming too?)

I note from its history card that A29-99 ended up at 1 Crash Recovery Depot at Werribee in June 1945 for conversion to components after crashing at 2 OTU Mildura in May 1945, and as a local of the area I was unaware of any significant remains surviving in the surrounding farms or on the old 1 CRD site?

The Moorabbin Museum's P-40E A29-53 continues to progress towards static restoration under the work of Ashley Briggs, I am long overdue to visit to photograph it in the workshop, here is a photo from 2007.





A29-53 served with the RAAF 76 and 77 Squadrons in the Defence of Darwin and later in WA, with the apparant restoration of A29-99 there will eventually be 4 surviving Australian P40E Kittyhawks with the AWM's "Polly" A29-133 already on display and the RAAF Museum's A29-28 under static restoration, (I understand both these aircraft are also veterans of 75 squadron at Milne Bay).

For those unaware Milne Bay was the first place in the Pacific where an invading Japanese land force was halted and forced into a full retreat by Australian and US forces, and is a particularly important historical battle to Australian forces and particularly the RAAF who operated the Air base there, and in particular important for the use of RAAF P-40's, hence the historical importance of these surviving P-40E's.

In US folklore I expect it tends to be overshadowed by Guadalcanal and the battle for Tenaru which occurred four days earlier than the battle for Milne Bay, which was the first land defeat of Japanese forces but did not force a retreat, and instead was the scene of further landings and ongoing battles.

The RAAF Museum's A29-28 was also damaged at Mildura in 1944 and was a display at Pearce Dunn's Warbirds Museum at Mildura in the 1970's as a cockpit section before restoration was commenced by Jack McDonald at Essendon and later in Qld before acquisition by Murray Griffith and exchanged to the RAAF Museum in a deal for Boston projects.

The AWM's A29-133 was under restoration for many years by Nelson Wilson in Victoria before acquisition and display by the AWM.

A29-53 has been in the AARG's collection since the early 1960s' when recovered from farm near Colac Victoria, and was for many years the only P-40 on public display in Australia, a situation that has been changed dramatically.





regards

Mark Pilkington

[ktst97]

For those unaware Milne Bay was the first place in the Pacific where an invading Japanese land force was halted and forced into a full retreat by Australian and US forces, and is a particularly important historical battle to Australian forces and particularly the RAAF who operated the Air base there, and in particular important for the use of RAAF P-40's, hence the historical importance of these surviving P-40E's.

In US folklore I expect it tends to be overshadowed by Guadalcanal and the battle for Tenaru which occurred four days earlier than the battle for Milne Bay, which was the first land defeat of Japanese forces but did not force a retreat, and instead was the scene of further landings and ongoing battles.

I'm currently reading Steve Birdsall's "Flying Buccaneers, The Illustrated Story of Kenney's Fifth Air Force". This book contains some interesting details in a portion titled, "Milne Bay: Taste of Victory" and elsewhere throughout its pages.

[shelldrake]

Hi all

I also picked up on the 1CRD details recorded on the cards. I had a chance to chat with the owner (Peter Smythe - Adelaide) today to discuss (briefly) what his plans are etc.

Regarding the issue of not much left lying around, I was informed of a recent discovery he made of a Hudson Bomber tail section (if anyone can update us on that it would be good) that had some major components still on it, if fact, he claims the significant portions he located belonged to an historical aircraft. Pete made arrangments to have the remains secured by the AWM etc. This section of Hudson was located at Tocumwal and those of us in the know will pick up on the fact that this was the location for the melting down of numerous warbirds at the end of WW2. Yet, this Hudson seemed to escape.

Not wanting to push this issue too far I asked if the aircraft in question was in fact located near 1CRD and was advised no. I was then informed that research undertaken by an independant analyst showed that a number of airframes 'ear marked' for 1CRD never actually made it there and were in fact diverted to other locations for other purposes. (don't ask me to explain that part of it but that's what I was told).

It is intended to rebuild the aircraft to flight status and for it to be an active member on the warbird circuit. Negotiations have been underway for sometime as to where this rebuild will occur. (?????) Regarding its recovery and more details surrounding those circumstances all I got was a 'no comment'

For those of you who don't know, Pete has been involved in Warbirds for a relatively short time, but has made a reasonable contribution to the growing historical side of Warbird activity in Australia, but specifically South Australia and Victoria. A visit to the 2OTU website at Mildura will reveal details of a discovery he and another party made of A29-117 with the engine of that aircraft being donated to the 2OTU museum. Pete has also donated other display engines etc to this museum along with a complete Wirraway airframe assembly being on loan. Add to this Fairey Battle parts recovered and 'Gifted' to a private collecter and the significant remains of a Mk V Spitfire traded to an Australian collector and his activities start to mount. It further proves that such aircraft parts are still available and yet to be discovered. Then of course is Pete's Wirraway which made headlines because of the issues surrounding its purchase on Ebay.

A search of this site will see a couple of entries I have made regarding Spitfire and P40 recoveries in Australia and their links to Pete. I understand his desire to provide 'no comment' and would only speculate that he has excellent reasons for adopting this approach at this time.

Finally I asked what the time frame was for the rebuild and wa advised it was "heavily dependant upon the finance minister"

So, I hope that has answered some of the questions but I suspect it may also create some more. Either way if another Warbird makes it back into the skies it has to be good news.

Shelldrake

[Mark_Pilkington]

- double post??

Last edited by Mark_Pilkington on Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Mark_Pilkington]

thanks for that update shelldrake,

I'm not surprised the airframe remains never made it to 1 CRD, and in some ways its lucky it didnt ,as few P40 parts survived the Werribee scrappers, in all my time in the district only 1 P-40 wing flap ever turned up to my knowledge.

Pete discovered a wartime Hudson tail section from forward of the turret mount through to the tail and its now in the collection of the AWM assisting in the re-installation of a dorsal turret to their display aircraft.

Photos of that discovery, and Petes attempts to get the RAAF Museum or others interested in it played out on the Warbirdz forum last year but unfortunately that forum suffered some server problems and all old posts were lost.

I dont think anyone wishes to breech Petes right to "no comment" but obviously the discovery of the remains of A29-99 (in any condition) is of great interest, as its intended restoration to airworthy condition, given the importance of the Battle of Milne Bay in Australian Military and RAAF history.

Thanks again to him and you for the information provided above.

regards


Mark Pilkington

[hang the expense]

Cool indeed. Mark how is yours coming along?

hello Oscar, (hows the A-26 coming too?)

I note from its history card that A29-99 ended up at 1 Crash Recovery Depot at Werribee in June 1945 for conversion to components after crashing at 2 OTU Mildura in May 1945, and as a local of the area I was unaware of any significant remains surviving in the surrounding farms or on the old 1 CRD site?

The Moorabbin Museum's P-40E A29-53 continues to progress towards static restoration under the work of Ashley Briggs, I am long overdue to visit to photograph it in the workshop, here is a photo from 2007.





A29-53 served with the RAAF 76 and 77 Squadrons in the Defence of Darwin and later in WA, with the apparant restoration of A29-99 there will eventually be 4 surviving Australian P40E Kittyhawks with the AWM's "Polly" A29-133 already on display and the RAAF Museum's A29-28 under static restoration, (I understand both these aircraft are also veterans of 75 squadron at Milne Bay).

For those unaware Milne Bay was the first place in the Pacific where an invading Japanese land force was halted and forced into a full retreat by Australian and US forces, and is a particularly important historical battle to Australian forces and particularly the RAAF who operated the Air base there, and in particular important for the use of RAAF P-40's, hence the historical importance of these surviving P-40E's.

In US folklore I expect it tends to be overshadowed by Guadalcanal and the battle for Tenaru which occurred four days earlier than the battle for Milne Bay, which was the first land defeat of Japanese forces but did not force a retreat, and instead was the scene of further landings and ongoing battles.

The RAAF Museum's A29-28 was also damaged at Mildura in 1944 and was a display at Pearce Dunn's Warbirds Museum at Mildura in the 1970's as a cockpit section before restoration was commenced by Jack McDonald at Essendon and later in Qld before acquisition by Murray Griffith and exchanged to the RAAF Museum in a deal for Boston projects.

The AWM's A29-133 was under restoration for many years by Nelson Wilson in Victoria before acquisition and display by the AWM.

A29-53 has been in the AARG's collection since the early 1960s' when recovered from farm near Colac Victoria, and was for many years the only P-40 on public display in Australia, a situation that has been changed dramatically.





regards

Mark Pilkington

This bird should be restored to flight and flown.I looked her over sometime ago and she was in good shape considering being discarded for so many years.Would be really neat to see this bird and a 49th E model fly over together at an airshow.

[hang the expense]

Cool indeed. Mark how is yours coming along?

hello Oscar, (hows the A-26 coming too?)

I note from its history card that A29-99 ended up at 1 Crash Recovery Depot at Werribee in June 1945 for conversion to components after crashing at 2 OTU Mildura in May 1945, and as a local of the area I was unaware of any significant remains surviving in the surrounding farms or on the old 1 CRD site?

The Moorabbin Museum's P-40E A29-53 continues to progress towards static restoration under the work of Ashley Briggs, I am long overdue to visit to photograph it in the workshop, here is a photo from 2007.





A29-53 served with the RAAF 76 and 77 Squadrons in the Defence of Darwin and later in WA, with the apparant restoration of A29-99 there will eventually be 4 surviving Australian P40E Kittyhawks with the AWM's "Polly" A29-133 already on display and the RAAF Museum's A29-28 under static restoration, (I understand both these aircraft are also veterans of 75 squadron at Milne Bay).

For those unaware Milne Bay was the first place in the Pacific where an invading Japanese land force was halted and forced into a full retreat by Australian and US forces, and is a particularly important historical battle to Australian forces and particularly the RAAF who operated the Air base there, and in particular important for the use of RAAF P-40's, hence the historical importance of these surviving P-40E's.

In US folklore I expect it tends to be overshadowed by Guadalcanal and the battle for Tenaru which occurred four days earlier than the battle for Milne Bay, which was the first land defeat of Japanese forces but did not force a retreat, and instead was the scene of further landings and ongoing battles.

The RAAF Museum's A29-28 was also damaged at Mildura in 1944 and was a display at Pearce Dunn's Warbirds Museum at Mildura in the 1970's as a cockpit section before restoration was commenced by Jack McDonald at Essendon and later in Qld before acquisition by Murray Griffith and exchanged to the RAAF Museum in a deal for Boston projects.

The AWM's A29-133 was under restoration for many years by Nelson Wilson in Victoria before acquisition and display by the AWM.

A29-53 has been in the AARG's collection since the early 1960s' when recovered from farm near Colac Victoria, and was for many years the only P-40 on public display in Australia, a situation that has been changed dramatically.





regards

Mark Pilkington

This bird should be restored to flight and flown.I looked her over sometime ago and she was in good shape considering being discarded for so many years.Would be really neat to see this bird and a 49th E model fly over together at an airshow.

[shelldrake]

Hi All

it amazes me just how quickly topics move into archives etc on this site. I guess that is an indication of just how busy this site is and how important it is in the warbird movement. I thought I would update all on my latest information regarding this most recent registration of A29-99, being known also as, Cleopatra. Milne Bay plays a significant part in RAAF WW2 Pacific history as it is the quenticentral point in time when the war against the Japanese can be measured and the shift in military tactics - away from the WW1 mindset - can be bookmarked. I had the opportunity of meeting with and then dining with the registered owner of A29-99, being Peter Smythe last week. We had a great time chatting about research and recoveries etc. Pete was very helpful in detailing the recovery of Cleopatra and has asked that the recovery side of this subject remain confidential at this time until he has completed his activities in this area. I can add that Pete hopes to have the aircraft rebuilt in Australia and is keen to negotiate with Australian based builders. He, of course does have a preference to deal with purists, He describes this as being "like minded people who believe in saving as much of the original airframe as possible" - direct quote. Pete also understands and appreciates that there are a number of people who may question this recovery, he welcomes this as he describes this as being the only way to ensure provenance of such projects.

Pete did mention that he was being mentored by another well known South Australian collecor but did not expand upon this too much. Given my own research of such people in the state of South Australia I could narrow this down to perhaps 1 or 2 people and remembering the emphasis that has been placed upon provenance and authenticity its not hard to work out who Pete maybe working with or refering too.

2010 is the date set aside for the rebuild to commence and its hoped that with the aid of several supporters the rebuild could be finalised realistically within 5 years. Pete is determined to make this a rebuild and not a reproduction but also accepts that we could be splitting hairs over the definitions that could be applied to this specific area of warbird restorations.

From my own perspective I'd like to add that Pete has nothing to prove here, he already has extensively proven his research capabilites regarding his P-39 Airacobra and has also shown his committment and capability to own and operate a Warbird ie his Wirraway, so I feel confident that we could see a very historical airframe from WW2 - Milne Bay flying in Australian skies in the not too distant future.

I'd like to thank Pete for taking the time to meet and chat with me and I appreciate the opportunity to walk around his workshop and inspect the P-39 and P-40 projects he has. If anyone would like to know more about this project Pete is most approachable. A letter via his CASA registration details is the easiest way to track him down.

Shelldrake.

[Dan K]

Many thanks for the report, Shelldrake.

As always, we types who enjoy digging around in the entrails of old aircraft request current pics of the P-39 and P-40 projects, (if you are permitted to share by the owner, of course).