B-29 Mystery
Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:21 pm
I need some WIX help solving a B-29 mystery? A local B-29 has no records prior to 1955...and strange seats in the aft section of the fuselage. The B-29 in question is 44-84053 (currently inside the Museum of Aviation at Robins AFB). I've checked with Maxwell AFB and the National Air & Space Museum and both say the same thing...no records prior to 1955.
I have been able to track down the last living test pilot from the Bell Bomber factory in Marietta, GA (where 053 was built). Thanks to his log books we were able to determine when 053 first flew (mid July of 45).
Hope this helps... Any thought or ideas would be great appreciated!
I'm working to download several pictures here on WIX...but for immediate pictures check: www.warbirdradio.com
v/r
Matt Jolley
I have been able to track down the last living test pilot from the Bell Bomber factory in Marietta, GA (where 053 was built). Thanks to his log books we were able to determine when 053 first flew (mid July of 45).
Hope this helps... Any thought or ideas would be great appreciated!
I'm working to download several pictures here on WIX...but for immediate pictures check: www.warbirdradio.com
v/r
Matt Jolley
Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:40 pm
Hi Matt;
I will bet it was one of the special B-29's assigned to the AIR RESUPPLY AND COMMUNICATIONS SQUADRON.
I think the B-29 at the Museum of Flight in Seattle had the same seating arrangements. They couldn't understand it until they got a hold of my friend Carl Bernhardt, who is the unit's historian. They were seats for spies to sit in while preparing to drop over enemy (Soviet, East Germany, China, N. Korea etc.) territory. The mods on the aircraft were all done post WWII.
Does the turret hole look a little different too? Some I understand were modified just for the spooks to jump out of. Check to see if it's a little different than it should be.
The ARC Squadron had all types of aircraft, from unmarked SA-16's and B-29's to H-55's and C-119's all set up for spy ops. It might explain why there are no records prior to 1955.
PM me if you'd like Carl's info, as he confirmed some of my father's slide images from 1953 at Great Falls as being aircraft from their unit. If it operated with ARC, he should know.
Do you have any better photos of those seats that were on the website and the serial # of the aircraft in question?
Be careful that you have the correct serial number for the AFT section of the aircraft, as many B-29's that were recovered from Aberdeen of even China Lake were put together from two different aircraft, much like NEAM's B-29. I don't know if Warner Robins B-29 is a composite airframe.
Blue skies,
Jerry
I will bet it was one of the special B-29's assigned to the AIR RESUPPLY AND COMMUNICATIONS SQUADRON.
I think the B-29 at the Museum of Flight in Seattle had the same seating arrangements. They couldn't understand it until they got a hold of my friend Carl Bernhardt, who is the unit's historian. They were seats for spies to sit in while preparing to drop over enemy (Soviet, East Germany, China, N. Korea etc.) territory. The mods on the aircraft were all done post WWII.
Does the turret hole look a little different too? Some I understand were modified just for the spooks to jump out of. Check to see if it's a little different than it should be.
The ARC Squadron had all types of aircraft, from unmarked SA-16's and B-29's to H-55's and C-119's all set up for spy ops. It might explain why there are no records prior to 1955.
PM me if you'd like Carl's info, as he confirmed some of my father's slide images from 1953 at Great Falls as being aircraft from their unit. If it operated with ARC, he should know.
Do you have any better photos of those seats that were on the website and the serial # of the aircraft in question?
Be careful that you have the correct serial number for the AFT section of the aircraft, as many B-29's that were recovered from Aberdeen of even China Lake were put together from two different aircraft, much like NEAM's B-29. I don't know if Warner Robins B-29 is a composite airframe.
Blue skies,
Jerry
Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:01 pm
I saw one one web page that it was converted to a TB-29, could they be extra radar operator trainee seats?
Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:18 pm
I'm sure they were, but every time I've come across the "strange seats in the back of a B-29" scenario, it seems to pan out that it was a spy dropper.
Any special features related to radar installations on the bird?
Jerry
Any special features related to radar installations on the bird?
Jerry
Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:55 pm
Very good suggestions. I'll go down and take a closer look at the turret (and post some more pictures). Regarding the radar...I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary. The aft section of the fuse is empty (other than the seats). Another interesting aspect of the seats is the oxygen line that runs above them. Thanks! Let me know if you have any other ideas.
Matt
Matt
Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:15 pm
Matt,
'053 was originally built and delivered as a B-29B. The B was a stripped airplane with no CFC turrets or associated equipment. The tail turret was retained and slaved to an AN/APG-15 gun-laying radar. Rather than the standard AN/APQ-13 bombing radar, this airplane was equipped with the airfoil shaped APQ-7 Eagle radar. Most of the B-29B production was slated for use by the 315th Bombardment Wing, but a fair number of late production airplanes like '053 ended up in storage or as utility airplanes.
When the USAAF, or later, USAF, needed a B-29 for modification to a non-tactical use the B was a good choice. They were already stripped of turrets from the factory and many were converted into TBs, tankers, and other utility functions. Pyote stored a fair number of the B airplanes and many were re-activated in the early fifties.
I'll do some digging for you on this particular airframe. I haven't messed with B-29 stuff for some time, but I'll give it my best shot.
Scott
'053 was originally built and delivered as a B-29B. The B was a stripped airplane with no CFC turrets or associated equipment. The tail turret was retained and slaved to an AN/APG-15 gun-laying radar. Rather than the standard AN/APQ-13 bombing radar, this airplane was equipped with the airfoil shaped APQ-7 Eagle radar. Most of the B-29B production was slated for use by the 315th Bombardment Wing, but a fair number of late production airplanes like '053 ended up in storage or as utility airplanes.
When the USAAF, or later, USAF, needed a B-29 for modification to a non-tactical use the B was a good choice. They were already stripped of turrets from the factory and many were converted into TBs, tankers, and other utility functions. Pyote stored a fair number of the B airplanes and many were re-activated in the early fifties.
I'll do some digging for you on this particular airframe. I haven't messed with B-29 stuff for some time, but I'll give it my best shot.
Scott
Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:41 pm
Thanks Scott! I'm hopeful that this mystery can be solved. I know the museum would appreciate any additional information. Let me know if you find anything...
V/R
Matt Jolley
V/R
Matt Jolley
Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:57 pm
I was able to make it out to the B-29 this afternoon. Thanks to your suggestions I took several more pictures of the aft turret cover. There is a strange square cut out in the center of it. Any ideas? Hope this helps.
Gallery Images Here: http://www.warbirdradio.com/2009/11/war ... 9-mystery/
v/r
Matt Jolley
Gallery Images Here: http://www.warbirdradio.com/2009/11/war ... 9-mystery/
v/r
Matt Jolley
Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:40 pm
I hope you don't mind me linking to your photos. I will remove them if you like.
Photo 11 and 12 shows a mount for a drift sight which is normally mounted next to the Navigators cabinet close to the pressure door and under the voltage regulators. I wonder why they moved it there? You can see the original hole for the drift sight in photo number 13 below on the right side just aft of the turret plug. You will find that the screw pattern around the hole will likely match the one for the plexi dome which has been painted over with silver.
As for dropping of agents I heard that they used the tail turret opening for that. I have never seen documentation of it though. Nick Veronico has a couple of tail sections that were modified as target tugs but there is speculation that they may have been used for clandestine ops. One is all black and the other is natural metal. Agents could easily bail out through the aft entry hatch too although it is a bit small.
This photo shows a patch inside the turret well. The opening looks too small for someone to fit through. It looks like it may have been used for an additional camera or other special sensor.
These seats are very interesting. The seats and their location have eliminated the normal radar operators position. I wonder if the radar was completely removed or moved forward?
Photo 21 shows the radio rack that is commonly seen in surviving B-29's especially TB-29's that went through post war retrofit. As I recall this rack had an ARC-3 set along with the AIC interphone amp. There is a walk around oxygen bottle bracket mounted on top of the rack. All of the turret equipment and racks are all gone which seems to be typical of the post war mod aircraft.
The vents in the floor are normal as the turret computers were mounted under the aft floor and they needed ventilation especially on the ground in the South Pacific.
In the top of this shot you can see another of the post war mods typical of the TB-29's. It is the overhead radio console that mounted the control heads for radios so that both the pilot and co pilot could reach them. You can see the ARC-3 VHF head and the mount plate for the ARN-7 radio compass head.
These are the stock camera doors from the factory. They could be open up via a hand crank. The strike cameras took shots on the bomb run through these doors.
One of the other things commonly seen in the post war overhauled Superforts is the changing of the interior upholstery. This is when they went from the factory solid, non quilted, beautiful Army Bronze Green blanket to the more common diamond quilted upholstery called Skyfelt. Some of the survivors today have a mix of factory original and the Skyfelt as repairs would have been done with the later and readily available Skyfelt.
This shot shows what looks like parts of the camera mount may still be installed over the factory camera bays. It is unusual to see camera mounts in surviving B-29's. This mount looks quite high and could be locally fabricated. The higher mount would indicate a very long lens for high altitude photos.
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I hope this helps,
Taigh
Photo 11 and 12 shows a mount for a drift sight which is normally mounted next to the Navigators cabinet close to the pressure door and under the voltage regulators. I wonder why they moved it there? You can see the original hole for the drift sight in photo number 13 below on the right side just aft of the turret plug. You will find that the screw pattern around the hole will likely match the one for the plexi dome which has been painted over with silver.
As for dropping of agents I heard that they used the tail turret opening for that. I have never seen documentation of it though. Nick Veronico has a couple of tail sections that were modified as target tugs but there is speculation that they may have been used for clandestine ops. One is all black and the other is natural metal. Agents could easily bail out through the aft entry hatch too although it is a bit small.
This photo shows a patch inside the turret well. The opening looks too small for someone to fit through. It looks like it may have been used for an additional camera or other special sensor.
These seats are very interesting. The seats and their location have eliminated the normal radar operators position. I wonder if the radar was completely removed or moved forward?
Photo 21 shows the radio rack that is commonly seen in surviving B-29's especially TB-29's that went through post war retrofit. As I recall this rack had an ARC-3 set along with the AIC interphone amp. There is a walk around oxygen bottle bracket mounted on top of the rack. All of the turret equipment and racks are all gone which seems to be typical of the post war mod aircraft.
The vents in the floor are normal as the turret computers were mounted under the aft floor and they needed ventilation especially on the ground in the South Pacific.
In the top of this shot you can see another of the post war mods typical of the TB-29's. It is the overhead radio console that mounted the control heads for radios so that both the pilot and co pilot could reach them. You can see the ARC-3 VHF head and the mount plate for the ARN-7 radio compass head.
These are the stock camera doors from the factory. They could be open up via a hand crank. The strike cameras took shots on the bomb run through these doors.
One of the other things commonly seen in the post war overhauled Superforts is the changing of the interior upholstery. This is when they went from the factory solid, non quilted, beautiful Army Bronze Green blanket to the more common diamond quilted upholstery called Skyfelt. Some of the survivors today have a mix of factory original and the Skyfelt as repairs would have been done with the later and readily available Skyfelt.
This shot shows what looks like parts of the camera mount may still be installed over the factory camera bays. It is unusual to see camera mounts in surviving B-29's. This mount looks quite high and could be locally fabricated. The higher mount would indicate a very long lens for high altitude photos.
I hope this helps,
Taigh
Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:02 pm
Taigh,
Thanks for examining a few of the photos. The puzzling part is the tail turret and the seats. I'm looking forward to solving the mystery...and sincerely appreciate your help!
v/r
Matt Jolley
Thanks for examining a few of the photos. The puzzling part is the tail turret and the seats. I'm looking forward to solving the mystery...and sincerely appreciate your help!
v/r
Matt Jolley
Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:27 pm
Matt;
I sent you a PM.
Here's what Carl says about 44-84053:
Jerry,
Get me the tail number of the aircraft, then I can tell you as to which unit it was assigned. I did a quick search. If the tail number is 44-84053, The aircraft was assigned to the 582nd Air Resupply Squadron at Molesworth RAF Station in England.
As for the three passenger seats, they were installed for our "passengers", from who knows where, so they could have a comfortable ride. As to the square hole in the turret cover, that was the "Joe Hole" where our "passengers" left the aircraft.
Carl
More info to follow.
Jerry
I sent you a PM.
Here's what Carl says about 44-84053:
Jerry,
Get me the tail number of the aircraft, then I can tell you as to which unit it was assigned. I did a quick search. If the tail number is 44-84053, The aircraft was assigned to the 582nd Air Resupply Squadron at Molesworth RAF Station in England.
As for the three passenger seats, they were installed for our "passengers", from who knows where, so they could have a comfortable ride. As to the square hole in the turret cover, that was the "Joe Hole" where our "passengers" left the aircraft.
Carl
More info to follow.
Jerry
Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:28 am
It's interesting that this airplane has the vents Taigh spoke of for the turret computers. This machine never had turrets or the computers, but Bell built "normal" turret equipped and stripped B models, every other airplane being a B, so lots of standard features still made it into the Bs.
Also, when built, this airframe had no waist blisters. It was equipped with the plug for the blisters and a small porthole, not unlike the Silverplate B-29s.
Thanks for the great photos of a rare variant. Even though it was modified a good bit postwar it is still a B-29B. Now if we could just find an Eagle airfoil........
Scott
Also, when built, this airframe had no waist blisters. It was equipped with the plug for the blisters and a small porthole, not unlike the Silverplate B-29s.
Thanks for the great photos of a rare variant. Even though it was modified a good bit postwar it is still a B-29B. Now if we could just find an Eagle airfoil........
Scott
Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:17 am
Great stuff! Whats the plan for this plane? Is it undergoing restoration, etc.?
Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:33 pm
Scott,
To my knowledge the two bomb bays were restored so they could be displayed. I think the plan is to raise the airplane up so the public can see inside the bomb bays. At this point I think those are the only plans.
v/r
Matt Jolley
To my knowledge the two bomb bays were restored so they could be displayed. I think the plan is to raise the airplane up so the public can see inside the bomb bays. At this point I think those are the only plans.
v/r
Matt Jolley