Warbird Information Exchange

Hi all

I'm interested in the way T6 and other aircraft was built in their factories. I mean, I wish to understand better the procedure of creating and building a wing for instance (riveting sequences, for instance). Does anyone knows or can hint were I can look for such information?

best regards,

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rreis

If you want pictures, see rreis@flickr

it is boring reading, but the FAA advisor circular, 43.13 covers all of that. it is a free download on the FAA website. There are also the Airframe and Powerplant handbooks there as well, the information is basic, but it will apply to all aircraft.

There are also several books out that show aircraft production lines during WWII.

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Matt Gunsch, A&P, IA, Warbird maint and restorations
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Check out the Long Island Aviation, Grumman Plants thread. It has hundreds (if not thousands) of photos of factory floors and airplanes under construction from the 1930's through to the 1960's or '70's.

Be prepared to spend some time there....

Welcome to the WIX madhouse! Yes, the Grumman thread has a LOT of photos of the design/manufacturing process, here is a link to that thread if you didn't know where to find it. I love the full size wooden mock-ups they did, all the way up into the jet age, very cool! Makes me want to go to the garage and start cutting wood!
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... hp?t=13327

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Thanks you all. The fabrication process and streamlining is something that I'm really interested. If someone had written a book on it, in a engineering point perspective then it would be quite sweet. I'll check all the pointers you gave me.

and yes, very nice forum, I think I'm staying around

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rreis

If you want pictures, see rreis@flickr

Matt,
I think rreiss is more interested in the assembly sequencing, do the ribs get riveted to the spar from inboard to outboard, when did the planners sequence the installation of elevator torque tube routing and bellcranks, etc. not the physical 'doin 'it' but the planning and sequencing of how an airplane is built from 'I've got an idea- to take her up jack and see what she'll do'-and planning is a huge part of building airplanes, imagine trying to build a 747 without a really detailed assemble sequence and plan, it's only around 1.75 million fasteners and holes to be drilled and filled from .128 to over 6 inches in diameter (nut plates to wing attach bottle pins).

And yes, welcome to the padded room with airplanes, usually we don't bite, but do growl and bark a lot, strap in and turn your 02 regulator to 100%/ EMERGENCY and breath normally

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Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

yes Inspector, that is what I'm looking for. Many thanks for putting it more clearly than I was doing.

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rreis

If you want pictures, see rreis@flickr

In a related note, check out the book The American Aircraft Factory in WWII. Lots of great photos!!

http://www.amazon.com/American-Aircraft ... 195&sr=8-1

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Assembly sequencing is more of a black art specific to an aircraft model and can vary by version of the basic model. It will take thousands of hours for the production and engineering planners to determine how to fabricate and assemble an aircraft, but it ends up being a living process. Of the production aircraft that I've worked on, we've spent significant hours working with the planning people to revise sequences and installation instructions to reflect production realities as well as design changes.

Only an assembly system for a static product can be worked out quickly and not need more than minimal tweaking thoughout the production cycle. Typical consumer products are examples of those type sequences.

To add a little bit to this, the planning sequences you are asking about cover every single operation, what tooling to use, which holes to pilot drill and which ones to drill on assembly, etc. Even for a T-6 this would be tens of thousands of pages of boring instructions like, "using jig part number 12-345678 rivet part number 23-45678 to part number 45-67890 using 12 each 3/32" diameter 7/32" grip length rivets." Of course another planning paper might also instruct you to prime the part prior to assembly. There is no manufacturing assembly manual as you might think, with parts illustrated in a plastic model airplane kit format. It generally is all textual in nature and might have some blanks on it where the inspector can place his rubber stamp after the task is completed. Just reams and reams of paper. These documents are also proprietary to the company, so would only be released to other companies under a licensing agreement. Normally they are shredded when a project is done so the proprietary techniques can't be discovered by digging through the trash.

Nowadays these are electronic, but all the same rules apply. As has already been mentioned, these instructions are subject to continual tweaking to improve processes, manufacturing speed and build quality.

Thanks for that input.

Yes, I can understand there' should be alot of feedback and it being a dynamic process. I can also understand the importance of such kind of documents and they being restricted to each company.

Anyway, one must start somewhere right? There must be some sort of translation of the plans to a building strategy in the plant. This "vision", knowledge, must exist and there should be some sort of engineering process that takes that into account.

For instance, compare a Spitfire wing with that of a Me109. One of the design targets of the Me 109 was ease of mass production. That requires such knowledge before hand. Is that king of process that I'm interested.

Yes, I realize now that I speak of two levels of granularity: you can observe maybe from major parts and their assembly to the detail of which rivet to put first. Well, I'm interested in the full spectrum of this knowledge. Mass production (and also, why not, ease of maintenance, you can design towards that no?), how is it all thought of? Which percentage is left to "the shop" and trial'n'error and which is first thought off?

Many thanks for you input.

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rreis

If you want pictures, see rreis@flickr

If possible visit Art...he does amazing work!

http://www.airspacemag.com/military-avi ... tangs.html