Warbird Information Exchange

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed on this site are the responsibility of the poster and do not reflect the views of the management.
It is currently Sun Apr 05, 2026 4:31 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:42 pm
Posts: 441
Hi all

I'm interested in the way T6 and other aircraft was built in their factories. I mean, I wish to understand better the procedure of creating and building a wing for instance (riveting sequences, for instance). Does anyone knows or can hint were I can look for such information?

best regards,

_________________
rreis

If you want pictures, see rreis@flickr


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:47 pm 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:18 pm
Posts: 3299
Location: Phoenix, Az
it is boring reading, but the FAA advisor circular, 43.13 covers all of that. it is a free download on the FAA website. There are also the Airframe and Powerplant handbooks there as well, the information is basic, but it will apply to all aircraft.

There are also several books out that show aircraft production lines during WWII.

_________________
Matt Gunsch, A&P, IA, Warbird maint and restorations
Jack, You have Debauched my sloth !!!!!!
We tried voting with the Ballot box, When do we start voting from the Ammo box, and am I allowed only one vote ?
Check out the Ercoupe Discussion Group on facebook


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:29 pm
Posts: 683
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Check out the Long Island Aviation, Grumman Plants thread. It has hundreds (if not thousands) of photos of factory floors and airplanes under construction from the 1930's through to the 1960's or '70's.

Be prepared to spend some time there....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:00 pm 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 2716
Location: St Petersburg FL, USA
Welcome to the WIX madhouse! Yes, the Grumman thread has a LOT of photos of the design/manufacturing process, here is a link to that thread if you didn't know where to find it. I love the full size wooden mock-ups they did, all the way up into the jet age, very cool! Makes me want to go to the garage and start cutting wood!
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... hp?t=13327

_________________
Image
Aviation Illustration Website
http://shepartstudio.com/illustration/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:42 pm
Posts: 441
Thanks you all. The fabrication process and streamlining is something that I'm really interested. If someone had written a book on it, in a engineering point perspective then it would be quite sweet. I'll check all the pointers you gave me.

and yes, very nice forum, I think I'm staying around :D

_________________
rreis

If you want pictures, see rreis@flickr


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:09 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:36 am
Posts: 7961
Location: Mt. Vernon, WA.
Matt,
I think rreiss is more interested in the assembly sequencing, do the ribs get riveted to the spar from inboard to outboard, when did the planners sequence the installation of elevator torque tube routing and bellcranks, etc. not the physical 'doin 'it' but the planning and sequencing of how an airplane is built from 'I've got an idea- to take her up jack and see what she'll do'-and planning is a huge part of building airplanes, imagine trying to build a 747 without a really detailed assemble sequence and plan, it's only around 1.75 million fasteners and holes to be drilled and filled from .128 to over 6 inches in diameter (nut plates to wing attach bottle pins).

And yes, welcome to the padded room with airplanes, usually we don't bite, but do growl and bark a lot, strap in and turn your 02 regulator to 100%/ EMERGENCY and breath normally

_________________
Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:42 pm
Posts: 441
yes Inspector, that is what I'm looking for. Many thanks for putting it more clearly than I was doing.

_________________
rreis

If you want pictures, see rreis@flickr


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:57 pm 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 3:08 pm
Posts: 4542
Location: chicago
In a related note, check out the book The American Aircraft Factory in WWII. Lots of great photos!!

http://www.amazon.com/American-Aircraft ... 195&sr=8-1

_________________
.
.
Sure, Charles Lindbergh flew the plane... but Tom Rutledge built the engine!

Visit Django Studios online or Facebook!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:58 pm 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:41 pm
Posts: 1488
Location: North Texas
Assembly sequencing is more of a black art specific to an aircraft model and can vary by version of the basic model. It will take thousands of hours for the production and engineering planners to determine how to fabricate and assemble an aircraft, but it ends up being a living process. Of the production aircraft that I've worked on, we've spent significant hours working with the planning people to revise sequences and installation instructions to reflect production realities as well as design changes.

Only an assembly system for a static product can be worked out quickly and not need more than minimal tweaking thoughout the production cycle. Typical consumer products are examples of those type sequences.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:16 pm 
Offline
Been here a long time
Been here a long time

Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am
Posts: 11332
To add a little bit to this, the planning sequences you are asking about cover every single operation, what tooling to use, which holes to pilot drill and which ones to drill on assembly, etc. Even for a T-6 this would be tens of thousands of pages of boring instructions like, "using jig part number 12-345678 rivet part number 23-45678 to part number 45-67890 using 12 each 3/32" diameter 7/32" grip length rivets." Of course another planning paper might also instruct you to prime the part prior to assembly. There is no manufacturing assembly manual as you might think, with parts illustrated in a plastic model airplane kit format. It generally is all textual in nature and might have some blanks on it where the inspector can place his rubber stamp after the task is completed. Just reams and reams of paper. These documents are also proprietary to the company, so would only be released to other companies under a licensing agreement. Normally they are shredded when a project is done so the proprietary techniques can't be discovered by digging through the trash.

Nowadays these are electronic, but all the same rules apply. As has already been mentioned, these instructions are subject to continual tweaking to improve processes, manufacturing speed and build quality.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:42 pm
Posts: 441
Thanks for that input.

Yes, I can understand there' should be alot of feedback and it being a dynamic process. I can also understand the importance of such kind of documents and they being restricted to each company.

Anyway, one must start somewhere right? There must be some sort of translation of the plans to a building strategy in the plant. This "vision", knowledge, must exist and there should be some sort of engineering process that takes that into account.

For instance, compare a Spitfire wing with that of a Me109. One of the design targets of the Me 109 was ease of mass production. That requires such knowledge before hand. Is that king of process that I'm interested.

Yes, I realize now that I speak of two levels of granularity: you can observe maybe from major parts and their assembly to the detail of which rivet to put first. Well, I'm interested in the full spectrum of this knowledge. Mass production (and also, why not, ease of maintenance, you can design towards that no?), how is it all thought of? Which percentage is left to "the shop" and trial'n'error and which is first thought off?

Many thanks for you input.

_________________
rreis

If you want pictures, see rreis@flickr


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: my .02 cents
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:35 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:02 pm
Posts: 786
Location: US
If possible visit Art...he does amazing work!

http://www.airspacemag.com/military-avi ... tangs.html


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 282 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group