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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:09 pm 
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Wreck of WW II seaplane found in St. Lawrence
Last Updated: Thursday, August 6, 2009 | 12:36 PM ET

Canadian divers believe they have discovered the wreckage of a U.S. seaplane that went down in the St. Lawrence River near Anticosti Island 67 years ago.

Underwater archeologists working for Parks Canada found the plane, and say it may contain the remains of five crew members who died when it sank in 1942.

The U.S. army air force PBY 5A flying boat — also known as a Catalina — was trying to take off in high waves near Longue-Pointe-de-Mingan, Que., when it foundered and sank.

Four of the nine crew members were rescued.

Longue-Pointe-de-Mingan is on Quebec's North Shore just north of the western tip of Anticosti Island.

During the Second World War, it was home to one of the airfields built in Eastern Canada that were used to ferry aircraft and supplies to Allied forces in Europe.

Canadian officials will now work with the U.S. government to formally identify the wreck and to "explore the possibility of eventually recovering the remains of the missing crew members," Parks Canada said in a statement.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story ... ckage.html

Canadian divers believe they may have discovered the wreckage of a U.S. air force seaplane that crashed in the St. Lawrence River in 1942.

Nine people were aboard the PBY-5A Catalina when it went down near the village of Longue-Pointe-de-Mingan in eastern Quebec.

Four crew members were able to get out of the plane and were found by local fishermen.

The five other people were trapped inside.

Sonar results indicate the seaplane is in good condition and that human remains may be found.

Federal cabinet minister Christian Paradis was at the scene today along with U.S. diplomats.

Parks Canada says Canada and the United States will work together to salvage the wreckage.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nat ... le1243521/


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:28 pm 
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I think this happened on 4th October 1942

All we need now is serial number

And I would think US Navy more likey than USAAF

I am thinking it ay be this incident....

http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4455

Note: I know it says Hudson, BUT it also says Americans and RCAF.....


Last edited by paulmcmillan on Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:33 pm 
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I was wondering about the US Army usage.....don't recall seeing an Army Cat, other amphibians, yes. Have to dig into that! OA-10, Hmmmm possibly an Army aircraft, whoever's it is, it would be a good and proper thing to recover the crew.

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 Post subject: US Army Catalinas
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:35 pm 
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During WWII the USAAF procured 361 Catalina amphibians and were used exclusively for SAR purposes. The 361 came from the following sources:

OA-10A-CO 56 built by Consolidated (San Diego) equiv to PBY-5A
OA-10A -VI 230 built by Canadian Vickers (Montreal) equiv to PBY-5A
OA-10B-CN 75 built by Consolidated (new Orleasn) equiv to PBY-6A


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:27 pm 
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Ignore my previous email.. It is this one

421102 OA-10 43-3266 ATC Presque Isle AAF, ME TOA 5 Zimmerman, Harry J CAN Mingan, Ontario


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 Post subject: next headline...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:32 pm 
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US Navy ATTACKS canada to prevent the recovery of a downed WWII aircraft. Quoting admiral birdbrane "its ours and we will BLOW it UP before we let those Canadians have it"


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:39 pm 
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But if it's an ARMY plane does the Navy have ANY jurisdiction?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:52 pm 
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This is an AAF airplane, not USN, so I don't think the USN has a heck of a lot to say about it.

A summary of the accident can be found on my website:

www.warbirdcrash.com

TonyM.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:53 pm 
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It's great if this is true, and that the crew may be able to come home. I think the family should have some input if they want their family members at the bottom.
Hope that if the Cat is recovered and the crew is given a proper burial, the Cat is taken care of properly and not scrapped.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:20 am 
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PbyCat-Guy wrote:
It's great if this is true, and that the crew may be able to come home. I think the family should have some input if they want their family members at the bottom.
Hope that if the Cat is recovered and the crew is given a proper burial, the Cat is taken care of properly and not scrapped.


The Cat appears to be a wreck rather than sunken complete airframe and I suspect only the fuselage sections will need to be recovered to recover human remains so there may not be alot to take care of afterwards.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:33 am 
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Mark_Pilkington wrote:

The Cat appears to be a wreck rather than sunken complete airframe and I suspect only the fuselage sections will need to be recovered to recover human remains so there may not be alot to take care of afterwards.

regards

Mark Pilkington


Care to tell us what you're basing this statement on?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:14 pm 
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An aircraft mystery finally solved

Sonar finds U.S. military plane that went down in Gulf of St. Lawrence 67 years ago


MONTREAL — From Friday's Globe and Mail
Last updated on Friday, Aug. 07, 2009 05:43AM EDT


It was a blustery Day of the Dead in 1942 when a United States Army Air Forces flying boat trying to take off from Canadian coastal waters sank, taking five U.S. servicemen to the ocean floor.

The Burgess family had a shoreline view in Longue-Pointe-de-Mingan, Que., on the snowy Nov. 2 as fishermen rowed into two-metre seas to pluck four survivors from the Gulf of St. Lawrence.

Yesterday, not far from the crash site, Jean-Luc Burgess and government officials announced that surveyors using sonar had finally found the wreckage, some 67 years after the PBY 5A Catalina went down.

"This is an event that marked our entire village for decades afterward," said Mr. Burgess, a retiree and village mayor. The Nov. 2 Catholic day of remembrance, known as le jour des morts, was thereafter associated with the crash, he said.

"It's very satisfying to think we may see a final resolution and a proper burial for those soldiers."

A sonar survey of an area adjacent to the Mingan Archipelago National Park Reserve led by marine archaeologist Marc-André Bernier discovered the aircraft.

"The fuselage seems to be intact, there's nothing to indicate it broke apart, so there's reason to believe the remains might still be inside," Mr. Bernier said.

Later this month, divers will confirm the identity of the plane. U.S. authorities will later decide whether to proceed with raising the aircraft or retrieving remains.

"The sonar images are very convincing, but a visual confirmation is required," Mr. Bernier said.

"It's not an easy operation, we're going to take our time and do it properly in respect for the people on the plane."

The Gulf of St. Lawrence near the Mingan Islands was a linchpin to the war effort in 1942. The U.S. army crew flying on the Catalina were building a secret air base just outside of town. It would be a waypoint on the flight route from the United States to Europe passing through Newfoundland, Greenland and Iceland.

The vast waters just south of Labrador were also the scene of numerous U-boat attacks.

The doomed Catalina was part of a small fleet of amphibious planes deployed by the U.S., British and Canadian militaries.

On the fateful flight, the aircraft made two attempts to take off. Survivors reported it sprung a major leak in its front wheel well after smashing against wave tops. It sank within minutes.

The Catalina, with twin engines mounted on high wings, boat-like hull and, on some models, retractable wheels, helped locate the German battleship Bismarck, according to aviation writer Doug Legg.

The plane fell out of military use soon after the war, but found new roles, including aerial surveying and firefighting.

There were also "the relatively conventional roles of passenger and freight transport and rich man's airborne yacht," Mr. Legg wrote on the website Catalina News.

Enthusiasts still fly several of the aircraft.

The base near the Mingan Islands operated for just a few years, but construction money and the 175 solders who manned the base had a lasting impact on the tiny community.

The U.S. military built an array of infrastructure, from a gymnasium to roads and the local pier. Residents got to watch U.S. films with soldiers.

The air strip officially closed shortly after the war, but its twin 2,000-metre runways still dominate the landscape north of town and planes still occasionally use them.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nat ... le1244138/


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:21 pm 
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The airplane is Consolidated OA-10 # 43-3266.

The accident summarized at:

http://www.warbirdcrash.com/

TonyM

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:11 pm 
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TonyM wrote:
This is an AAF airplane, not USN, so I don't think the USN has a heck of a lot to say about it.

A summary of the accident can be found on my website:

www.warbirdcrash.com

TonyM.


Tony, the summary on your site lists the crash site as being at Long Point in Lake Erie, the crash site in the article is in the St. Lawrence river in Quebec. There is a harvard crash site not far from there (Long Point), perhaps you have the details mixed up from that?

Cool site BTW!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:34 pm 
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Simcoe Warrior wrote:
TonyM wrote:
This is an AAF airplane, not USN, so I don't think the USN has a heck of a lot to say about it.

A summary of the accident can be found on my website:

www.warbirdcrash.com

TonyM.


Tony, the summary on your site lists the crash site as being at Long Point in Lake Erie, the crash site in the article is in the St. Lawrence river in Quebec. There is a harvard crash site not far from there (Long Point), perhaps you have the details mixed up from that?

Cool site BTW!


Thanks for pointing out the error.

The mistake is apperently from my tranlation of the "Long Point" and "Lounge-Pointe-de Mingan" on the accident report. Pardon my French.

There is a Long Point on the Ontario side of Lake Erie (about 30 miles North of Erie, PA), but no "Long Point" on my map of Quebec. So that is where the error obviously originated. When we saw "Long Point" on the accident report, it was thought in error that it was the Long Point in Ontario. But in other parts of the accident report the Mingan Channel location is mentioned. This was obviously overlooked. Other than that, the rest of the summary is correct.

Thanks for the heads up.

TonyM.

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