The Mancus Incident (Duxford 2009)
Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:44 pm
Folks...
So my Good friend from England, was the individual who got hit in the face with a camera lens by this individual of questionable judgement Mancus and witnessed, as did MANY others, him throw a ladder and apparently punch a guy in the back....I wrote Mancus a very fiery letter (seen at the bottom of this) and got the following response from him (top part):
Mr. Morris
You do not know all of the key facts yet you have formed a firm opinion based on your gross misunderstanding of the complete, accurate facts, which, in my judgment, telegraphs what can aptly be described as stupidity on your part. It would be stupid of me to argue with a person who manifests such stupidity because there is no cure for stupidity--yours.
You have jumped to a pejorative conflucison about me which telegraphs you lack a mature mind. So be it.
You are entitled to your opinions. Opinions are like ass-holes. Everyone has one.
You--and no one else--are entitled to the facts . . . or to twist the facts.
How arrogant, presumputous, and stupid of you to rail against me, assuming you have a good command of the facts.
Facts are stubborn critters.
I am entitled to the facts--the real facts.
The real facts and Duxford's rules support me and, probably, applicable British law.
Given your jumping to conclusion rant agaisnt me you are invited to go to hell, to burn indefinitely, and to self-fornicate.
You triggered that response with your non-diplomatic, uncritical "thinking", pejorative judgment, jumping to conclusions, initial contact with me.
Perhaps when you know the real facts your view and opinions will change.
I do not owe anyone an apology.
You do not know the facts. You have no personal knowledge. You were not there. You are relying on other people's self-serving twisted version of what really happened and why.
If you ever cross my path and start to execute on what you threaten me with below you had better be prepared for serious blow back.
Stay clear of me.
The airshow industry had better adopt and enforce excellent rules to keep rude, inconsiderate, bullies from violating others' enjoyment of air shows, and ban stepladders, etc.
I was the only one that I know of at Duxford who stood up for and demanded enforcement of Duxford's rules. Am I sorry for that? No!
Duxford's officials adopted good rules but refused to enforce them! Worse: Instead of disciplining the rule violators they ejected and banned the one person who demanded that they enforce their own excellent rules. As such, Duxford's officials made a mockery of their rules, shuffled the rules like a card shark shuffles a deck, took the easy way out, and rewarded the rule violators and encouraged them to continue to violate the rules, all of which makes for a bigger problem.
You are now part of a growing number of people who have threatened me with physical violence. You have a mob mentality--lynch mob, take the law into your own hands, mentality. Go to hell.
Given your--and others' reaction--a compelling argument can be made that airshows are becoming an attractive nuisance--for bullies who viloate the rules, with impunity, because they are allowed to do so by officials who refuse to enforce their own rules.
Me being ejected and banned only proves how inept and stupid some of Duxford's officials are and how grossly mismanaged some aspects of that airshow were.
-- Peter Mancus
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Morris" <corsair166b@yahoo.com>
To: pmancus@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:36:52 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Your conduct in England....
Dear Sir.....
As an aviation photographer myself, having worked airshows for over 18 years based out of Colorado and having traveled as far away as the UK to photograph said airshows and WWII aircraft and make new friends and acquaintances in that country, I was appalled to hear of your conduct recently in England. One of my friends over there, who recently had a run in with you, was kind enough to regale me with your 'ugly American' antics while on the flightline at Duxford, flying ladders and all. I have to tell you, had I been there, I would have made it my personal vendetta to knock some sense into your ugly American head. Luckily, and from what I have heard, you have been banned for the foreseeable future from the Duxford airfield for your incredible behavior. What the hell were you thinking? Do you really think throwing temper tantrums and bopping folks in the face with your camera lens and demanding everyone clear out while you 'work' is the way to win friends and influence people? My god man, where's your sense of decency and fair play....and moreover, where the hell have your manners gone? My outrage at hearing this story (from Numerous sources, I might add, not just my friends over there) lasted for hours after hearing of your conduct. If ever you and I are standing on the same flight line at some stateside airshow and you start this s**t, you better darn well expect an unlubricated monopod up your backside in short order, and that's a straight up promise....I think you owe a HELLUVA lot of folks an apology, and if you wish to convey one to my friend over there whose face you got up in, I can provide you with an address for him or forward it for you, preferably the latter.
You better rethink your priorities, fella.....or the airshow industry will do it for you
Sincerely,
Mark Morris
Flightline Aviation Photography
Greeley, Colorado
Steve is taking his response to the Key publishing forums and I am posting it over here...we need to get this clown OUT of the airshow business.
Mark
So my Good friend from England, was the individual who got hit in the face with a camera lens by this individual of questionable judgement Mancus and witnessed, as did MANY others, him throw a ladder and apparently punch a guy in the back....I wrote Mancus a very fiery letter (seen at the bottom of this) and got the following response from him (top part):
Mr. Morris
You do not know all of the key facts yet you have formed a firm opinion based on your gross misunderstanding of the complete, accurate facts, which, in my judgment, telegraphs what can aptly be described as stupidity on your part. It would be stupid of me to argue with a person who manifests such stupidity because there is no cure for stupidity--yours.
You have jumped to a pejorative conflucison about me which telegraphs you lack a mature mind. So be it.
You are entitled to your opinions. Opinions are like ass-holes. Everyone has one.
You--and no one else--are entitled to the facts . . . or to twist the facts.
How arrogant, presumputous, and stupid of you to rail against me, assuming you have a good command of the facts.
Facts are stubborn critters.
I am entitled to the facts--the real facts.
The real facts and Duxford's rules support me and, probably, applicable British law.
Given your jumping to conclusion rant agaisnt me you are invited to go to hell, to burn indefinitely, and to self-fornicate.
You triggered that response with your non-diplomatic, uncritical "thinking", pejorative judgment, jumping to conclusions, initial contact with me.
Perhaps when you know the real facts your view and opinions will change.
I do not owe anyone an apology.
You do not know the facts. You have no personal knowledge. You were not there. You are relying on other people's self-serving twisted version of what really happened and why.
If you ever cross my path and start to execute on what you threaten me with below you had better be prepared for serious blow back.
Stay clear of me.
The airshow industry had better adopt and enforce excellent rules to keep rude, inconsiderate, bullies from violating others' enjoyment of air shows, and ban stepladders, etc.
I was the only one that I know of at Duxford who stood up for and demanded enforcement of Duxford's rules. Am I sorry for that? No!
Duxford's officials adopted good rules but refused to enforce them! Worse: Instead of disciplining the rule violators they ejected and banned the one person who demanded that they enforce their own excellent rules. As such, Duxford's officials made a mockery of their rules, shuffled the rules like a card shark shuffles a deck, took the easy way out, and rewarded the rule violators and encouraged them to continue to violate the rules, all of which makes for a bigger problem.
You are now part of a growing number of people who have threatened me with physical violence. You have a mob mentality--lynch mob, take the law into your own hands, mentality. Go to hell.
Given your--and others' reaction--a compelling argument can be made that airshows are becoming an attractive nuisance--for bullies who viloate the rules, with impunity, because they are allowed to do so by officials who refuse to enforce their own rules.
Me being ejected and banned only proves how inept and stupid some of Duxford's officials are and how grossly mismanaged some aspects of that airshow were.
-- Peter Mancus
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Morris" <corsair166b@yahoo.com>
To: pmancus@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:36:52 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Your conduct in England....
Dear Sir.....
As an aviation photographer myself, having worked airshows for over 18 years based out of Colorado and having traveled as far away as the UK to photograph said airshows and WWII aircraft and make new friends and acquaintances in that country, I was appalled to hear of your conduct recently in England. One of my friends over there, who recently had a run in with you, was kind enough to regale me with your 'ugly American' antics while on the flightline at Duxford, flying ladders and all. I have to tell you, had I been there, I would have made it my personal vendetta to knock some sense into your ugly American head. Luckily, and from what I have heard, you have been banned for the foreseeable future from the Duxford airfield for your incredible behavior. What the hell were you thinking? Do you really think throwing temper tantrums and bopping folks in the face with your camera lens and demanding everyone clear out while you 'work' is the way to win friends and influence people? My god man, where's your sense of decency and fair play....and moreover, where the hell have your manners gone? My outrage at hearing this story (from Numerous sources, I might add, not just my friends over there) lasted for hours after hearing of your conduct. If ever you and I are standing on the same flight line at some stateside airshow and you start this s**t, you better darn well expect an unlubricated monopod up your backside in short order, and that's a straight up promise....I think you owe a HELLUVA lot of folks an apology, and if you wish to convey one to my friend over there whose face you got up in, I can provide you with an address for him or forward it for you, preferably the latter.
You better rethink your priorities, fella.....or the airshow industry will do it for you
Sincerely,
Mark Morris
Flightline Aviation Photography
Greeley, Colorado
Steve is taking his response to the Key publishing forums and I am posting it over here...we need to get this clown OUT of the airshow business.
Mark
Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:19 pm
Any pictures?
SPANNER
SPANNER
Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:27 pm
Someone somewhere had a pic of Mancus with what was a large camera lens that they described as looking like part of a Saturn 5 rocket....anyone got that pic? Would'nt want to be whacked upside the head by that lens...
Mark
Mark
Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:48 pm
I always hate to see this stuff -- it just makes the work of those of us who do try to do our jobs in a considerate and unobtrusive way that much more difficult. Many "Press" photographers. as well as well-heeled non-pros with fancy gear seem to forget that access is a priveledge to be treasured and protected, not a "right" that allows one to be a fool and a jerk. We have had problems at Reno with "Press" guys wandering around turning props, intruding into last minute conferences between pilots and crew chiefs, wanting to interview pilots two minutes before engine start on Race days, etc. etc. etc.
Sounds like the organisers and show management did the right thing in this case. I just hope there's no blowback onto more reasonably behaved working Press in the form of more restrictions and rules etc.
Sounds like the organisers and show management did the right thing in this case. I just hope there's no blowback onto more reasonably behaved working Press in the form of more restrictions and rules etc.
Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:52 pm
Mark,
Are you able to share with us the details of what your friend allegedly did that turned this other photog into Mr Hyde?
Pete
Are you able to share with us the details of what your friend allegedly did that turned this other photog into Mr Hyde?
Pete
Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:12 pm
Mark, Mancus deftly sidesteps the issue of his clouting someone in the face with his lens by focusing on the stepladder incident. Friends who were infront of him were looking for a woman in the crowd due to the high-pitched screaming, they were surprised that it was coming from Mancus.
He told people that he'd been there all night on Saturday (unlikely) and that he'd been there since 7am on Sunday (site opens at 8am). He used this as justification for maintaining a ring of clear space in a location that gets very crowded.
If he'd wanted clear space infront of him he'd have been better off at the fence (since he apparently got there before opening it should have been clear). Having thrown a series of tantrums on Saturday I'm quite staggered that he chose to repeat this the next day.
Mancus's behaviour is unacceptable. Those around him, who were equally aware of "the facts" appear to have a very different perception of events to Mancus.
Here's a cropped shot of the crowd that I took on the Saturday from the fuel bank. When you consider just how crowded it is, you can appreciate that swinging the "saturn V" was going to cause problems. Everyone paid for their place on the bank so should everyone else accommodate Mancus? Having had this experience on the Saturday it was madness not to find somewhere with a bit more space.
He told people that he'd been there all night on Saturday (unlikely) and that he'd been there since 7am on Sunday (site opens at 8am). He used this as justification for maintaining a ring of clear space in a location that gets very crowded.
If he'd wanted clear space infront of him he'd have been better off at the fence (since he apparently got there before opening it should have been clear). Having thrown a series of tantrums on Saturday I'm quite staggered that he chose to repeat this the next day.
Mancus's behaviour is unacceptable. Those around him, who were equally aware of "the facts" appear to have a very different perception of events to Mancus.
Here's a cropped shot of the crowd that I took on the Saturday from the fuel bank. When you consider just how crowded it is, you can appreciate that swinging the "saturn V" was going to cause problems. Everyone paid for their place on the bank so should everyone else accommodate Mancus? Having had this experience on the Saturday it was madness not to find somewhere with a bit more space.
Last edited by Robbo on Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:17 pm
Common sense prompts me to urge caution here.
Libel Laws must apply to sites like these and while everyone is sorry that a few folks couldn't get along and a few are curious enough to want to know the gory details... There comes a line that isn't worth crossing unless in PMs.
strictly one dumb guys opinion... But don't give Scott and the Moderators headaches.
Peace All
(Oh fiddlesticks... TOO LATE!)
Libel Laws must apply to sites like these and while everyone is sorry that a few folks couldn't get along and a few are curious enough to want to know the gory details... There comes a line that isn't worth crossing unless in PMs.
strictly one dumb guys opinion... But don't give Scott and the Moderators headaches.
Peace All
(Oh fiddlesticks... TOO LATE!)
Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:22 pm
Appreciate the warning shot on the libel stuff...not intending to create a lawsuit, just warn people about this individual of questionable judgement. Same with Steve.
mark
mark
Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:34 pm
Gee with that American flag on the lens, it DOES like Stage 1 of the Saturn V rocket--very colorful description. 
It looks like part of the 5-foot tall, 1:96 scale Saturn V model kit offered from Revell.
And judging from the sour-puss face of said photographer, he wasn't having a good day.
It looks like part of the 5-foot tall, 1:96 scale Saturn V model kit offered from Revell.
And judging from the sour-puss face of said photographer, he wasn't having a good day.
Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:47 pm
SPANNERmkV wrote:Libel Laws must apply to sites like these and while everyone is sorry that a few folks couldn't get along and a few are curious enough to want to know the gory details... There comes a line that isn't worth crossing unless in PMs.
A spat a few years back with an infamous publisher...rather a challenge
...prompted Scott to post the
Disclaimer at the top right corner of these pages absolving the site of liability for opinions of the posters. Tho' I agree
'tis better to make nice and not get to carried away with it all.
The public is forewarned..beware the "Saturn 5"!!
Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:57 pm
http://www.cloud9photography.us/gallery/4347826_h9kUx
ugly pud, ain't he?
Mark, this jackass is a lawyer. I suggest you refrain from threatening him. He sounds stupid enough to try to make it a legal thing.
ugly pud, ain't he?
Mark, this jackass is a lawyer. I suggest you refrain from threatening him. He sounds stupid enough to try to make it a legal thing.
Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:06 pm
Yo Muddyboots...
Thanks for the linkees... And the perspective provided there-in.
The chap certainly isn't likely to get caught short for an opinion, especially as relates to his own personage.
I think I'll go stick to working on B17s to amuse meself...
Out
Thanks for the linkees... And the perspective provided there-in.
The chap certainly isn't likely to get caught short for an opinion, especially as relates to his own personage.
I think I'll go stick to working on B17s to amuse meself...
Out
Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:32 pm
Several thoughts on this one:
- Mr Mancus obviously has an ego bigger than his lens, and clearly wasn't behaving nicely out there. About the last thing we need as Americans is another jackass proving the stereotype that many Brits all ready essentially believe.
- Mark, while I appreciate what you were trying to do with your letter to him, IMHO the message is lost in the name-calling/threatening you use. By the time I got to the "monopod up your backside" part of the letter, I was shaking my head just as much as I was reading about the initial incident. Fire doesn't always need to beget fire.
- Mr Mancus' website really takes the cake.
- Mr Mancus obviously has an ego bigger than his lens, and clearly wasn't behaving nicely out there. About the last thing we need as Americans is another jackass proving the stereotype that many Brits all ready essentially believe.
- Mark, while I appreciate what you were trying to do with your letter to him, IMHO the message is lost in the name-calling/threatening you use. By the time I got to the "monopod up your backside" part of the letter, I was shaking my head just as much as I was reading about the initial incident. Fire doesn't always need to beget fire.
- Mr Mancus' website really takes the cake.
Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:53 pm
Oh I know he's a lawyer...I don't care....the day I bend to lawyers is the day I die....all I did was promise to be up in his face if he ever pulled this crap and I was present, be it in the UK or the US or wherever....Randy, basically I get you telling me to be the Bigger person here, but in this case, and because it was a personal friend of mine....no dice...I meant what I said and he better believe it.
Mark
Mark
Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:28 pm
Whattajackazz. (and I am sure you all know to whom I refer.... and it certainly ain't Mark...)
Robbie
and it certainly ain't Mark...)
Robbie