Flying Boat Warbirds

A2C · **Posted:** Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:13 am

I've noticed Grumman Goose's are pretty expensive, but PBY's can be found for less. It appears to me that a PBY might be better as a seaplane, because it could carry more people. So it's curious why Goose's are in more demand? I would think a PBY could take more abuse in Alaska too. Any thoughts on this?

Matt Gunsch · **Posted:** Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:45 am

the PBY has a fabric wing, a very big fabric wing, also no reversable props,

JDK · **Posted:** Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:07 am

They undertake different jobs, and their cost/utility relation does not reflect the payload difference.

A2C · **Posted:** Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:40 am

Quote:

They undertake different jobs, and their cost/utility relation does not reflect the payload difference.

Please explain.

Useful load of a PBY is around 6000 lbs not including passengers, but cost 2x for fuel. Cruise Speed is 125 mph.

Goose cruise is 138 mph. Useful load is approx. 1000 lbs., not including passengers.

PBY carries more at a slighty slower cruise speed.

PBY has a fabric wing, but Goose has fabric control surfaces.

JDK · **Posted:** Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:05 am

If you want to run a minivan, you don't want to be paying bus costs, however cheap the bus was to buy.

Have a look at how manageable and serviceable a Cat is compared to a Goose. The Goose can simply go places a Cat can't get into - including smaller lakes, shorter river sections, and more hangars and workshops.

If you want a bigger Goose, you'd look at a Mallard or possibly an Albatross; the PBY/Cat is simply a bigger beast for a bigger job. It appears that though the market's small, the Goose and Mallard fit their niches perfectly, the operators wouldn't trade them.

Purchase cost for a warbird era aircraft - especially when looking at using it to work - is the least of your financial worries. A Cat might be cheap, but if you maths isn't right will bankrupt you if you need a Goose that cost more up front but was cheaper to run.

YMMV.

Ztex · **Posted:** Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:01 am

Also I would think that most PBY's are not registered as Standard category aircraft (just a guess) and would most likely not be useful in a commercial application, so the money earning potential would be much less and therefore worth less to the operator.

michaelharadon · **Posted:** Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:23 am

How big an issue is spare parts availability and cost for a PBY?

Ryan Keough · **Posted:** Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:42 pm

I suspect the factors as described above are also the reason why Gooses and Widgeons have held fairly high prices in comparison with PBY's - the demand is higher because of the their flexibility and it drives the price accordingly.

tex-fan · **Posted:** Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:24 pm

I haven't noticed a PBY for sale in a long time. Did I just miss it? When was the last time a PBY sold, and what did it bring? thanks

jet1 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:20 pm

Matt Gunsch wrote:

the PBY has a fabric wing, a very big fabric wing, also no reversable props,

I purchased some brand new PBY 5A wings for a restoration project in watsonville calif many years ago and they WERE NOT FABRIC.

davem · **Posted:** Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:26 pm

jet1 wrote:

Matt Gunsch wrote:

the PBY has a fabric wing, a very big fabric wing, also no reversable props,

I purchased some brabd new PBY 5A wings for a restoration project in watsonville calif many years ago and they WERE NOT FABRIC.

The trailing edge of the stock PBY-5A wing center section was fabric, but many have been "metalized" over the years. Also, the standard Goose does not have reversable props.

jet1 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:51 pm

davem wrote:

jet1 wrote:

Matt Gunsch wrote:

the PBY has a fabric wing, a very big fabric wing, also no reversable props,

I purchased some brabd new PBY 5A wings for a restoration project in watsonville calif many years ago and they WERE NOT FABRIC.

The trailing edge of the stock PBY wing center section was fabric, but many have been "metalized" over the years. Also, the standard Goose does not have reversable props.

no fabric anywhere and were specifically for the PBY 5A still had the "stars and bars" on them as well as the formation lights

davem · **Posted:** Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:16 pm

jet1 wrote:

davem wrote:

jet1 wrote:

Matt Gunsch wrote:

the PBY has a fabric wing, a very big fabric wing, also no reversable props,

I purchased some brabd new PBY 5A wings for a restoration project in watsonville calif many years ago and they WERE NOT FABRIC.

The trailing edge of the stock PBY wing center section was fabric, but many have been "metalized" over the years. Also, the standard Goose does not have reversable props.

no fabric anywhere and were specifically for the PBY 5A still had the "stars and bars" on them as well as the formation lights

My bad, I was sure the full metal production wings were on the PBY-6A.

A2C · **Posted:** Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:22 pm

ZTEX Wrote:

Quote:

Also I would think that most PBY's are not registered as Standard category aircraft (just a guess) and would most likely not be useful in a commercial application, so the money earning potential would be much less and therefore worth less to the operator.

In Standard Cat.

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry ... rtxt=423RS

Ztex · **Posted:** Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:10 pm

Yes there are PBY's in the standard category...Like I said "most" (over 50%) I would imagine are not.

Warbird Information Exchange

Flying Boat Warbirds

Who is online