GUTS!!

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:28 pm

P-47C 78th FG going after a flak tower 1943

Robbie Roberts · **Posted:** Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:59 pm

Looks more like a water tower! Or was it some sort of control station?

Robbie

A2C · **Posted:** Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:05 am

It's a very ugly nazi structure..

Bad architecture..

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:30 am

I'm assuming that's a gun camera shot..could cameras be operated independently of the guns? If not, it looks like the P-47 is dangerously close to his wingman's line of fire.

Those guys had titanium cajones!!

SN

Iclo · **Posted:** Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:32 am

Looks to be be a water tower like the ones who can found in the north of France.
But perharps with a flak position at its top...

Tulio · **Joined:** Mon May 03, 2004 1:05 am **Posts:** 3236

I remember having seen that photo when I was a teenager, and the caption was almost the same; I distinctly recall the mention of the "flak tower."

Here's a little more on the towers built around Berlin:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/the-doctor/2871350693/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flak_tower

http://boards.history.com/thread.jspa?t ... 0&start=-1

Saludos,

Tulio

gary1954 · **Posted:** Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:24 am

Tulio wrote:

I remember having seen that photo when I was a teenager, and the caption was almost the same; I distinctly recall the mention of the "flak tower."

Here's a little more on the towers built around Berlin:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/the-doctor/2871350693/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flak_tower

http://boards.history.com/thread.jspa?t ... 0&start=-1

Saludos,

Tulio

I recall the same Tulio, I bet that was one heck of a wing over to avoid a collision.

JDK · **Posted:** Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:59 am

Interesting. Let's have a think about this.

Taking a look at the data in front of us, I'd say it's evidently NOT a flak tower. The major flak towers in cities like Berlin, as Tulio's links illustrate were massive 'bombproof' structures. Local towers have a reason to be where they are (defending something) and fields of fire or observation, and the structures tend to be different as well.

This looks exactly like a water tower - a concrete structure with a block top, and it's in an appropriate landscape (flat, fields - classic pressure developer for irrigation). Where would the guns (or equipment for a director or similar) be? I'm not sure if these water towers were built in concrete pre-war in the low countries, but there's no reason why not. There's a concrete water tower at RAAF Point Cook that dates to at least pre- 1936.

Here's a hypothesis. A couple of P-47 pilots are ranging on their way home low over Holland or Belgium. They see a structure on the horizon, approach and shoot it up. Probably they don't have time to even identify what it is, at 300mph. It's just a legitimate target of opportunity. At the least target practice. But as the sole stand up thing in kilometres, it's a great target (can we see dust from strikes on it?). Then one of the photos gets to the PR guys and either in ignorance or deliberately it becomes 'shooting up a flak tower' and out to the press. IF it went through the intelligence dept, they'd do a better assessment than I have here, and if it came from intelligence to PR, then my hypothesis is blown. But I don't think so - if only because if it's NOT a 'normal' target than therefore unlikely to be shared with PR by intelligence if it is an unusual defensive structure. I'm also not buying the secret storage unit in a water tower either, for the reason it got attacked. Slightly circular logic, but good enough, I think.

So back to the title 'Guts'. Not quite what we see. Obviously these fighter pilots were brave men. But as a friend of mine on another forum has it:

"What young man could possibly be bored
with a uniform to wear,
a fast aeroplane to fly,
and something to shoot at?"

In other words, if you have to go to war, it's one of the better ways to do it. (If you are good enough to get the job!) The guts I'd tip my hat at would be those who had to sit and take it, and got no glamour points for the job.

Just some thoughts.

Holedigger · **Posted:** Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:13 am

I have seen it several places listed as an airfield flak tower in France. I have doubts to it being a flak tower as well. Though it looks like it may have some slots around just under the eave of the roof. MG's perhaps, I can see as a potential fit, nothing bigger. A couple MG-42s from up there would have a great field of fire for close in airfield defense, but that is not flak. It does look like a water tower.

groundpounder · **Posted:** Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:35 am

here we go !! :lol:

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:44 am

Quote:

So back to the title 'Guts'. Not quite what we see

My answer will be much shorter than yours James :twisted:

I think your wrong! There's a difference between doing your duty/flying the missions and taking it to the next level.
Some guys were just that way. Hofer, Cyril Jones plus Righetti are good examples. Sorry but it takes GUTS to do this kind of work :idea:

PinecastleAAF · **Joined:** Fri May 25, 2007 4:50 pm **Posts:** 1028

Maybe it is a fake like the P-38 returning from the mission or the Nick diving on the B-29. Isn't this picture in Caidan's Air Force book too?

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:44 am

If I have time when I get back from today's flight, before I have to pack for Boston, I'll try and post a few more relevant shots - if no one beats me to it. :wink:

Ryan

Holedigger · **Posted:** Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:56 am

Flying low and fast for the fun of it is one thing. Once the shooting starts, it takes guts!

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:17 am

Looks like I have a minute or two here.

First shot - the NA card with Jack's photo.

Second shot - a different Flak tower being attacked.

Third shot - this one's fun!

Allegedly (according to the caption) this is another "Flak Tower" on an airfield. Also note the aircraft :shock:

And...

The AAF WAS apparently aware of OTHER types of flak towers. These were often manned by machine gunners.

My conclusion, perhaps the towers were mis-identified, but there is evidence of more than one of these existing, and I suspect the intelligence guys had some idea what they were talking about.

Ryan

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