Lufwaffe pilots after the war

Mgawa · **Posted:** Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:27 am

Greetings all,

I have just find on web page about Gunter Rall, one of teh German top scorer in WW2, and he had served in post war Luftwaffe until retirement as Brigadier General. He flew F-84 and F-104 and he aws first German pilot to flew Starfighter. It would be interestimng to know is anywhere list of the former WW2 aces who have served after the war as pilot in NATO?

Cheers

Dan K · **Posted:** Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:43 am

This from Wiki (for all it's worth):

Many well-known fighter pilots who had fought with the Luftwaffe in World War II joined the new post-war air force and underwent refresher training in the U.S. before returning to West Germany to upgrade on the latest U.S.-supplied hardware. These included Erich Hartmann, the highest-ever scoring ace (352 enemy aircraft destroyed), Gerhard Barkhorn (301), Günther Rall (275) and Johannes Steinhoff (176). Steinhoff, who suffered a crash in a Messerschmitt Me 262 shortly before the end of the war that resulted in lifelong scarring of his face and other parts of his body, would eventually become commander-in-chief of the Luftwaffe, with Rall as his immediate successor. Hartmann retired as an Oberst (colonel) in 1970 at age 48. Josef Kammhuber, mentioned above, also served in the post-war Luftwaffe, retiring in 1962 as Inspekteur der Bundesluftwaffe (chief inspector of the Federal air force).

John Dupre · **Posted:** Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:44 am

I don't know but there must have been dozens if not hundreds. Erich Hartmann, world's highest scorer, served in the Budeswaffe as did one of his early mentors who's name escapes me at the moment. About the only Luftwaffe pilots who did not have a chance of serving in the post war luftwaffe were those too closely associated with the nazis such as Ulrich Rudel and Adolf Galland and Galland may have been more the victim of luftwaffe politics going back to WW2 than actual nazi sympathies. Hartmann was eventually eased out of the service because of a wartime conflict with another former WW2 pilot.

Mgawa · **Posted:** Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:24 am

I have just find this:

http://www.acesofww2.com/germany/top_aces.htm

Robbie Roberts · **Posted:** Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:39 pm

I know that the same thing happened with former pilots of the Empire of Japan, and the JDF. Saburo Sakai, their leading SURVIVING ace of the war, decided against doing so, due to his severe injuries sustained during the war, IIRC.(He lost an eye over Guadalcanal. Read "SAMURAI!" by Sakai to read about his experiences. Very interesting reading!)

Robbie

Rossco · **Posted:** Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:42 pm

Quote:

Hartmann was eventually eased out of the service because of a wartime conflict with another former WW2 pilot.

Great book to read is "Blond Knight of Germany" and how Hartman served after his 11 year imprisonment in Russian Gulags.

Holedigger · **Posted:** Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:31 pm

I've often wondered about the legality of the Russians holding German POWs so long after the war. No trial, just holding them. That and the US turning over Luftwaffe pilots back to Russia? Combine that with the 95% mortality of the Stalingrad POWs. Geneva Convention? What is that!? The Eastern front was appallingly dirtier war on both sides.

Robbie Roberts · **Posted:** Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:11 pm

Holedigger wrote:

I've often wondered about the legality of the Russians holding German POWs so long after the war. No trial, just holding them. That and the US turning over Luftwaffe pilots back to Russia? Combine that with the 95% mortality of the Stalingrad POWs. Geneva Convention? What is that!? The Eastern front was appallingly dirtier war on both sides.

Legality had nothing to do with it- there was no Geneva agreement between Germany and Russia...

The fact the Russians did not sign the Geneva Accords with Germany lead directly to the tragic abuse of Russian POWs in German hands during the war. Almost every US/Brit POW memoire I have read speaks of the Russians, and how glad the American and British POWs were that their countries had been signators! The Russian POWs were treated as disposable resources, often worked literally to death, and left barely fed or clothed. They were truly treated as badly as the Concentration Camp victims. One of the most interesting stories out of those camps was about one of the German guards who had an Alsatian(like a larger German Shepard) guard dog. He let it get all riled up, and laughed as he set it loose in one of the Russian barracks, delighting in the thought of the Ivans being bitten. From fierce barking, it went to yelping: Very shortly, the yelping stopped. The guard waited a few minutes, and slunk away as he realized his dog no longer existed as such...

The Japanese treated American POWs equally poorly, with the experiments in China really bringing them on par with their allies for cruelty.

Meanwhile, German, and those few Japanese POWs were treated very well here, in the US & Canada until the end of the war, with many choosing to settle here after the war!

Hans Von Luck, a Panzer Colonel, was held into the early 1950s after being captured during the fall of Berlin. After regular interrogations for several years after the war, he had enough, and yelled at his captors "I was only a German Soldier doing my duty! I know nothing of what the High Command did! I was just a field officer!" Apparently, after 5 years, and numerous attempts to get them to listen, and understand he knew nothing they did not already know, they finally believed him, and released him to West Germany. Read "Panzer Commander" by hans Von Luck, for more details.

Robbie

Robbie

Junkyard36 · **Posted:** Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:07 pm

Robbie Roberts wrote:

Hans Von Luck, a Panzer Colonel, was held into the early 1950s after being captured during the fall of Berlin. After regular interrogations for several years after the war, he had enough, and yelled at his captors "I was only a German Soldier doing my duty! I know nothing of what the High Command did! I was just a field officer!" Apparently, after 5 years, and numerous attempts to get them to listen, and understand he knew nothing they did not already know, they finally believed him, and released him to West Germany. Read "Panzer Commander" by hans Von Luck, for more details.

Robbie

Robbie

Holy C r a p! I just started to read Panzer Commander last night!

That is too funny.

Mike

muddyboots · **Posted:** Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:27 pm

John Dupre wrote:

I don't know but there must have been dozens if not hundreds. Erich Hartmann, world's highest scorer, served in the Budeswaffe as did one of his early mentors who's name escapes me at the moment. About the only Luftwaffe pilots who did not have a chance of serving in the post war luftwaffe were those too closely associated with the nazis such as Ulrich Rudel and Adolf Galland and Galland may have been more the victim of luftwaffe politics going back to WW2 than actual nazi sympathies. Hartmann was eventually eased out of the service because of a wartime conflict with another former WW2 pilot.

I thought he got jammed because he spoke out over the old F104 scandal.

Robbie Roberts · **Posted:** Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:47 pm

Junkyard36 wrote:

Robbie Roberts wrote:

Hans Von Luck, a Panzer Colonel, was held into the early 1950s after being captured during the fall of Berlin. After regular interrogations for several years after the war, he had enough, and yelled at his captors "I was only a German Soldier doing my duty! I know nothing of what the High Command did! I was just a field officer!" Apparently, after 5 years, and numerous attempts to get them to listen, and understand he knew nothing they did not already know, they finally believed him, and released him to West Germany. Read "Panzer Commander" by hans Von Luck, for more details.

Robbie

Robbie

Holy C r a p! I just started to read Panzer Commander last night!

That is too funny.

Mike

I first read it about 20(!) years ago- I think I loaned my copy to a friend: I haven't seen it in quite a while

Need another hardcover copy. It is a pretty good book!

Sorry to give away the ending! :shock:

Robbie

fotobass · **Posted:** Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:51 pm

You didn't...there's a bit more to that part (I read it a year ago).

evanflys · **Joined:** Mon May 25, 2009 11:07 pm **Posts:** 78

I think this is going a bit off topic but I interviewed a Luftwaffe pilot. He hardly flew after the war. But he did fly the whole war!

http://evanflys.com/willi_kriessmann

Evan

JägerMarty · **Posted:** Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:08 am

muddyboots wrote:

John Dupre wrote:

I don't know but there must have been dozens if not hundreds. Erich Hartmann, world's highest scorer, served in the Budeswaffe as did one of his early mentors who's name escapes me at the moment. About the only Luftwaffe pilots who did not have a chance of serving in the post war luftwaffe were those too closely associated with the nazis such as Ulrich Rudel and Adolf Galland and Galland may have been more the victim of luftwaffe politics going back to WW2 than actual nazi sympathies. Hartmann was eventually eased out of the service because of a wartime conflict with another former WW2 pilot.

I thought he got jammed because he spoke out over the old F104 scandal.

That's what I remember after reading Blonde Knight.

and John Dupre, I'm not the hugest fan of Galland but I don't know if I'd compare his politics to Rudels? :shock:

Rossco · **Posted:** Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:07 am

Quote:

I'm not the hugest fan of Galland but I don't know if I'd compare his politics to Rudels?

From what I,ve seen,Galland see,s himself as a romantic,a true jouster of the skies,a gentleman and a great leader.Perhaps not the best fighter pilot.Rudel was hardcore,arrogant and a true proffesional.Hard to the core.Hartman I saw an interview of him he did back in the 70,s and you can see the cold hunter instict in his eyes.Most of the damage the soviets done to him was psycological.

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Lufwaffe pilots after the war

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