Warbird Information Exchange

of ownership in a warbird at a certain price, say one 4th of 4 owners, certain amount of responsiblilty, certain amount of flight time, certain amount of commitment to maintainence. What would you expect and what would you offer as a share for your commitment? What would you think is reasonable for your one 4th? ... and what would you expect from the other 3? .... Lets say a P-51 or Spitfire?

I'd expect a BIG written contract to keep everyone honest. I'd also expect everyone to PAY for their flight time as well as a share of the fixed costs. Everyone has to kick in their money on time to pay the bills or they lose the share they have, no refunds. If not, you will be advancing all the costs of running the airplane.

To do it with a fighter (big bucks), you are going to need people who can come up with the cash without putting a lein on the airplane for a whole bunch of reasons.

Also everyone has to have similar pilot skills and times or you may find your insurance is simply not available becuase you have 3 high time qualifed members and one who happens to have 64TT in a 172. Now your insurance is tripled or unavailable at any price. Personally, I think that aircraft insurance is a rip and if its paid for, screw the insurance company.

You also need a way to track power settings (electronics of some kind, they have them in some turbine helicopters). You may find one of your partners is having a lot of time, running the heck out of the engine in the plane, maybe over boosting it, etc. Heard one story about a Merlin that had some internal parts heat damaged (melted) because of someone flying it who wasn't paying the bills.

Last, you need to keep in mind that this is a "club" airplane, so don't feel bad when you come in to fly and there is a BIG SCRATCH in that $80k paint job or sruff marks on the wing where some walked on it. Or bent sheet metal from pushing it on a control surface.

Sorry but I've shared my hangar with people before who didn't respect that I paid to build it and they were in it for very little each month (Why do people who have a $300,000 airplane think they can get hangar space for $75 a month and can't afford a nickle more????). I've had the latches on the bifold door destroyed when they opened it latched. Amazing how stupid some people can be.......

Personally if I had a Mustang, it would be mine and I wouldn't share it with anyone.

Mark H

_________________
Fly safe or you get to meet me .......

Really? go out and pay for, or earn your time with an organization rather than this hypothetical crap.

jim

Whats your problem?, this whole website is usually about 'hypothetical crap' ... I earn everything I have, what's your excuse? ... Hopefully you didn't point that towards me ... or one of our wonderful mods will kill an otherwise good intentioned thread ....

Minor point, they have them in some Spitfires, too, now. Historic Flying Ltd:

http://www.historicflying.com/news.htm

Halfway down the page, 'Data recorder system' - NB; VERY out of date website.

Main page with frames: http://www.historicflying.com/

_________________
James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

lol...I don't have any frustration...just venting.

jim

Jim, isn't that an oxymoron? ... take some advice from me, Venting is fine in my book, just make it clear who you vent too and what you vent about ... I'm still learning .... I persoanlly would love to hear your stories, I'm sure you have some great info to share ..

Mark

not really many stories to tell...in a nutshell I got the job I have from WIX 7 years ago and in that time thanks to too many people I can't begin to thank I have more than fullfilled every childhood dream. This business takes more dedication and perserverance driven by passion for not only the aircraft but the veterans who made these aircraft the icons that they are. NOTHING in this business is offered or given, and guess that is where my frustration gestates. Opportunities exist for those who want them and those who wish to persue the time and financial expenditures to attain the level of dream fullfillment... be it a ride...a rating...stick time...dream fullfillment...whatever your passion and by god there should not be anything stading in your way.

jim

Just about every "shared" aircraft will get ugly at some point.


Regards,

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! I don't care who it is, how long you've known them or what great friends you are. (remember that first wife and how in love your were? )

If you really put the numbers to it and you truly have the expendable cash available to afford 1/4 ownership, then you can afford sole ownership. At least when it's tore up then, it's your own fault. If someone is offering you a partnership then they are already tearing it up more than they can afford to pay for anyway

Aircraft sponsorship is your best route if you can't afford sole ownership. Be careful here as well though. The majority of the people I know are in it for the love of the airplanes, etc. There are some that are in it because it's the cheapest way to fly an aircraft they otherwise can't afford, and their care of that aircraft reflects it.

Last bit of advice, and so there is no mistake this is directly totally at you Hellcat...If someone is offering you 1/4 ownership and there are 4 others guys already, you're getting screwed!

Hellcat wrote:

Great discussion.

Chunks

I hope you're not saying that's a contradiction.



... except you jumping out of nowhere hurling baseless insults on the internet. What gives? Hellcat posted an interesting thread not about asking for an airplane on a platter*, but about structuring a financial partnership.

* Even if he WAS offered one by someone, that's between them. What business of yours is it to get up in arms about it?

Wow, I didn't read it that way. I think most understand that when conversing with Hellcat that it is considered bad form NOT to throw in a body check. It's the way he's wired.



I'm not saying that at all. Some are better stewards than others. I can think of at least one SB2C that was torn in half over a sponsors insistance on flying it, airworthy or not.

Chunks

WTF??? ... the only way I become wired is wasting my time reading your BS

.... feel better now, I fixed the typo ....



If your going through an ugly divorce, I'm sure you can get some help somewhere else .. If your just into trying to take a shot at me, man up and PM me anytime tough guy ....

Another stupid end to an otherwise well intentioned thread ... Lock it up JDK, this is one I wouldn't blame you .... geeez!

OK. It appears that I have offended someone. I have sent a pm to Hellcat apologizing for what was obviously incredibly inconsiderate on my part. I thought from the many posts of his that I have read that I understood his sense of humor, but I was no where close.

I've been told on numerous occasions that some people don't think I'm funny, but I entertain the C rap out of myself.

As for divorce, never have been after 25 yrs. It was a poor example I used to express how the best friendships can turn sour.

As far as the topic, don't lock it on my part, as I said in my previous post I think it's a good one. I won't soil it again with my opinions.

Chunks

Not a problem, I'm just wired with thin skin ... I have all the respect in the world for someone who shows respect. Thx. I take back the part about your mother wearing Army boots. Alls well again ....
But I still want to know some experiences with duel ownership. I've never owned an airplane with another person, but I have owned a large boat with two others and had no problems, even with my thin skin ... lol