News story on stolen Cessna and flares from F-16?

Bluedharma · **Posted:** Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:03 am

I saw this a news story on GMA this morning.

Quote:

Pilot of Stolen Plane in Custody
Fighter jets pursued man who took off with a Cessna from Canadian flight school.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/

This question is for Randy... or someone who might know.
One of the things mentioned was that the man who stole the Cessna thought he was going to be shot down several times.
They said that it looked like the F-16's fired "flares"???? at him?

Do they do that? He is lucky he didn't get shot down, but is it a standard process for an F-16 to shoot a flare?

Here is where they mention the "FLARES"????
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=7276034

Best Regards,

the330thbg · **Joined:** Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:06 pm **Posts:** 2713

they can drop them from built in flare dispensers on their bellies..,

P51Mstg · **Joined:** Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:36 am **Posts:** 1202

Flares are kind of the F-16's way of saying, I really mean business and I'm not just practicing formation flying..........

I've heard about it, particularly around the DC area with its no fly zone...

Never happened to me though (well not yet)

Mark H

cozmo · **Posted:** Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:41 am

Remember y'all this is the same news organization that pretty much called the Red Bull Albatross a death trap.

It may have been the trooper saying it, but Diane was almost drooling at that part of his description.

Django · **Posted:** Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:15 am

In another article, he said he WANTED to get shot down. Wanted to commit suicide but didn't have the stones to do it himself.

Bluedharma · **Posted:** Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:48 am

cozmo, I think you are right.
GMA did put the "negative" spin on it.

They said it took 20 min for the F-16s to get to him.
Why did it take 20 min???? Why??? Why???

I think the main point of the story that is amazing to me is that the guy did not get blown out of the sky.
Not the few min it took to intercept.
How lucky he was to have them fire flares.

Next GMA report most likely will be on how every Cessna you see could be on a mission of terror...

Django · **Posted:** Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:14 pm

Did they have to scramble? Or do they fly a cap everyday?

Bear · **Posted:** Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:40 pm

Bluedharma wrote:

They said it took 20 min for the F-16s to get to him.
Why did it take 20 min???? Why??? Why???

Well, I'm no expert, but the F-16's were probably based in Madison, WI, which is in southern WI. They intercepted the Cessna on the border of WI and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. That sounds about the right time frame. They were actually going to try to force him to land at Central Wisconsin Aiport which is 20 miles or so to the north of where I am. There were also reports that people here in Stevens Point saw the plane fly over town here with the F-16's. I didn't see that in person though.

cozmo · **Posted:** Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:48 pm

Bluedharma wrote:

Next GMA report most likely will be on how every Cessna you see could be on a mission of terror...

I wouldn't bet against that. The cynic in me says it won't just be GMA either.

Bluedharma · **Posted:** Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:52 pm

Bear wrote:

Bluedharma wrote:

They said it took 20 min for the F-16s to get to him.
Why did it take 20 min???? Why??? Why???

Well, I'm no expert, but the F-16's were probably based in Madison, WI, which is in southern WI. They intercepted the Cessna on the border of WI and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. That sounds about the right time frame. They were actually going to try to force him to land at Central Wisconsin Aiport which is 20 miles or so to the north of where I am. There were also reports that people here in Stevens Point saw the plane fly over town here with the F-16's. I didn't see that in person though.

It looked like the response time to me was more than adequate, considering the location and type of aircraft.
GMA said that the time response was one of the many troublesome questions that they had.

It is interesting to note that here in Colorado, they will be creating badges for people to wear to prevent problems like this.

TSA says Colorado airports must screen personnel and pilots
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_12079380
Not sure how good that will be.
In my opinion...when this man jumped the fence in Canada, any type of badge will be of little help.

I think things were handled quite well.

Regards,

Dan K · **Posted:** Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:27 pm

Sounds like the flight plan was just to the west of where I'm at.

ANG units rotate through Volk Field for training on a regular basis. The air above my town is part of Volk's training area, which means we've got F-16's going to afterburner overhead at least three times a week--often more. I'm sure I heard a few go to burners yesterday, but I never would've thought to look for them escorting a spam can back south.

Who needs an airshow when you've got distraught Turkish Canucks searching for cheap avgas in Missouri! :wink:

Robbie Stuart · **Posted:** Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:55 pm

Reposted with permission from “Aero-News Network, Inc., www.aero-news.net”

Air Guard Details Encounter With Suspicious Aircraft

Tue, 07 Apr '09
Fighters Intercepted C172 That Entered US Airspace Without Permission

As ANN reported, Air National Guard fighter aircraft from two states intercepted a suspicious aircraft as it flew into US airspace Monday afternoon.

North American Aerospace Defense Command directed F-16C aircraft assigned to the 148th Fighter Wing in Duluth, MN to initially intercept the Cessna 172 single-engine aircraft near Michigan's Upper Peninsula, before handing off the mission to F-16s assigned to the 115th FW of Madison, WI.

Pilots attempted to notify the pilot to establish communications with local Federal Aviation Administration air traffic controllers and land safety for further follow-on action, according to a Wisconsin National Guard news release.

The Cessna pilot acknowledged the fighters, but was unresponsive to specific nonverbal commands, according to a NORAD press release.

Mike Kucharek, a NORAD spokesman, said the Cessna was reported as stolen from an aviation school in Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada, and departed without Navigation Canada (Nav Canada) authority.

The pilot was flying erratically and did not communicate with fighter pilots, the spokesman told national news agencies.

The Wisconsin fighters were about to hand the mission over to aircraft from the 159th FW of the Louisiana Air National Guard when the Cessna ran out of gas over southern Missouri. US Customs and Border Protection aircraft intercepted the Cessna as well, but the F-16s followed the aircraft until it landed in an area 23 miles northwest of Poplar Bluff, MO at 9:45 pm EDT. The aircraft landed on Highway 60 near Ellsinore, and was apprehended by local authorities.

Air Force Brig. Gen. Don Dunbar, the adjutant general of the Wisconsin National Guard and the homeland security advisor to the state, ordered the evacuation of the Capitol building in Madison as a precautionary measure, according to a state-issued press release. At 5:45 pm, the evacuation was terminated based on the aircraft's proximity to the building.

(Aero-News thanks Army Staff Sgt. S. Patrick McCollum, who serves at the National Guard Bureau.)
FMI: www.defenselink.mil, www.navcanada.ca/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:shock:

Robbie

markcia · **Posted:** Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:24 pm

I'm a little perplexed... I do believe that the stall speed of an F-16 is in the neighbouhood of 120kias and the Cessna would be ticking along at the fastest at about 120kias. (mind you flying in either the Cessna or the F-16 in those edges of the envelop would be a bad idea)

How does one do visual signs to indicate to another pilot to land if you're passed or being passed that quickly...

I'd say either the F-16 would be causing the Cessna to crash just due to the vortex coming off of the wings or the Cessna pilot better have good eyesight to see the signs from the F-16 whipping by in a blink...

Just a thought... I'm an engineer after all... I do that sort of stuff for a living (thought I mean... Not the flypast...)

Mark

the330thbg · **Joined:** Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:06 pm **Posts:** 2713

Django wrote:

Did they have to scramble? Or do they fly a cap everyday?

I think they cancelled flying CAP years ago.., at least here in NYC. Not that we ever heard or saw them.., i know it became a maintenance issue for the poor F-16's in Jersey. Apparently they were getting worn out! Pilot's were getting good flight time though!

Randy Haskin · **Posted:** Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:34 pm

markcia wrote:

How does one do visual signs to indicate to another pilot to land if you're passed or being passed that quickly...

It's been a while since I pulled interceptor duty, but the signals aren't made via hand gestures -- they are signals like big wing rocks, and peeling turns away indicating the direction the intercepted aircraft is supposed to follow.

markcia wrote:

I'd say either the F-16 would be causing the Cessna to crash just due to the vortex coming off of the wings or the Cessna pilot better have good eyesight to see the signs from the F-16 whipping by in a blink...

Unless the F-16 was flying directly in front of the Cessna, there should be no issues with wake turbulence.

An aircraft with 20-30 knots of overtake certainly doesn't "whip" by...it is very easy to see, and when making multiple passes by I don't see how a GA pilot could miss it. It's also possible to HEAR a jet that is in formation next to you.

The flares are also used as an attention-getter.

Bluedharma wrote:

They said it took 20 min for the F-16s to get to him.
Why did it take 20 min???? Why??? Why???
[/color]

Do you think fighter aircraft can teleport or something?

Jets have to get an order, scramble, and then go to their target from where they are based. Even at supersonic speed, that takes time.

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News story on stolen Cessna and flares from F-16?

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