Warbird Information Exchange

Hi All,

Over on a modeling forum a guy was discussing converting a C-47 to a C-117. He mentioned using B-17 engines, but somebody else told him that would be wrong, because the Super DC-3s used P&W R-2000s.

I don't know a lot about the type, but every reference or photo I've ever seen of a Super DC-3/C-117/R4D-8 shows them as using Wright R-1820s. Were they ever equipped with R-2000s?

Cheers!

Steve

The standard engine on the Super DC-3 / C-117 / R4D-8 was the R-1820-80, rated at 1,475 hp. One source I saw said a few R-2000's were used, but no mention of how many airframes carried these engines, or whether they remained installed.

Walt

There is a DC-3 that is 15 min from me, it has R2000's on it. I dont know what its history is.

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Long Live the N3N-3 "The Last US Military Bi-Plane" 1940-1959
Badmouthing Stearmans on WIX since 2005

According to my reference material:

C-117 : 1,200 hp P&W R-1830-90C w/2 stage supercharger

C-117A: 1,200 hp P&W R-1830-90C w/o 2 stage supercharger

C-117B: same as above but with the 2 stage supercharger

C-117C: Modified C-47 aircraft--1,200 hp P&W R-1830-92

C-117D: Military version of the Super DC-3-- 1,475 hp Wright R-1820-80

See

Squadron Signal C-47 In Action

TonyM.

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"Welcome back Mr. Lasky."

Additionally:

C-47 and C-47A: 1,200 hp P&W R-1830-92

C-47B: 1,200 hp P&W R-1820-90C w/2 stage supercharger

C-48: a DC-3A with 1,000 hp P&W R-1830; these were impressed by AAF from UAL and Pan Am.

C-49: a DC-3 with 1,000 hp Wright R-1820; these are also DC-3s that were impressed from the airlines and the Douglas production lines by AAF.

So, according to the reference books, no model of the C-47 used the Wright R-1820--
C-47 airplanes used only the P&W R-1830.

TonyM.

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"Welcome back Mr. Lasky."

Just found this when looking for something else.

TCDS A669

DC3A

* (d) P&W R-2000-7M2 or -D5

Propellers - Ham. Std., hubs 43D50, blades 6863-1 or 7033-1. (Blades 6863 and 7033 may be

installed in same hub.) Diameter: Max. 11'6", min. allowable for repairs 11'3". No further

reduction permitted.

Placard required: "Avoid Continuous Ground Operation of Engines in Range of 2100 to 2250 rpm.

Avoid Continuous Operation of Engines between 2310 and 2510 rpm."

Fuel - Grade 100/130

Engine Limits: MP

HP RPM IN.HG ALT.

Take-off (2 min.) 1450 2700 50.0 S.L.

Max. continuous 1100 2550 39.3 S.L.

Max. continuous 1100 2550 37.5 9800

Installation must be made in accordance with PAA Report #462 and airplane must be modified to

comply with all structural, airspeed and weight limitations of NOTE 13 of this specification. FAA

Approved Airplane Flight Manual dated September 15, 1954, which is contained in PAA Report #462,

is also required.

Sully

Appears that the P&W R-2000 installation is an after-production modification. Apparently they did not come out of the factory with those R-2000 engines--at least not according to the references I have.

TonyM.

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"Welcome back Mr. Lasky."

I concur. I "assume" PAA means Pan American Airways.

I had never seen or heard of one but accidently ran across the reference in the Type Certificate.

NOTE: It is not in the Super DC3 TCDS.

Sully

According to the subject link the "Super DC-3" did indeed have R-2000 powerplants. I do not doubt that the C-117 and R4D-8's constructed for the military were powered by the P&W 1830 series as indicated in the above comments. But it seems that those offered to the civilian market by Douglas were powered by the R-2000. Capital Airlines was the only customer that purchased the Super DC-3...a token three A/C. Douglas had a company demonstrator (N30000) that was doubly used as a corporate transport. Does anyone out there know its current status or registration?

http://www.dc3history.org/suoerdc3.html

Thanks jdvoss for posting that link.

It clears things up a bit. The history on that link states that the Super DC-3 is a conversion of the standard DC-3 model and that the original powerplants were "replaced" with the P&W R-2000 engines. The conversion was performed by Douglas and the new models were given a new construction number. So they are factory conversions--perhaps they did roll out of the factory the second time around (after the conversion) with those R-2000s (according to that link). And those airplanes were converted in 1949 or so. My references cover the DC-3/C-47 type airplanes produced before and during the Second World War.

TonyM.

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"Welcome back Mr. Lasky."

Link to the type certificate data sheet for the Douglas Super DC3;

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_an ... LE/6a2.PDF

No mention of P&W R-2000 engines.

The one I worked on was headed for South America and I only did a sheetmetal repair around the tailwheel but I think it had Wrights. I was a Lodestar guy.

Sully

Steve,

I flew a C-117D/R4D-8 on the Alaska Fish Haul in 1981.The engines on that airplane (and the other two that TBM got in a trade) were Wright R-1820-80B's.The only difference between the -80 and the -80B was that the -80B had a high capacity oil pump.Someone said that it was the same pump that the T-28C's used to assure full oil flow during catapult launches.These were low altitude high engines with high tension ignition which were rated at 1475 hp on 100/130 and were never rated higher with 115/145.They had pretty alarming power settings to someone with a lot of B-17 time.We used 54 1/2 " and 2700 rpm for take-off.We used METO power for climb.which was close to B-17 max power at 45" and 2500 rpm.There was a large rpm band that was placarded against running continuously due to a prop harmonic vibration problem.We weren't allowed to run between 2150-2450 rpm for any length of time.That eliminated the B-17 climb power of 38" and 2300 rpm and some of the higher cruise rpm's.As I mentioned,these were low altitude engines and we'd be at full throttle in climb by about 3000 feet as we could no longer maintain 45" of manifold pressure.The prop vibration was really there if you ran right at 2150 rpm.It always felt to me like we were losing a cylinder.There was no vibration problem at 2500 rpm.

This was taken at Homer,AK. in August 1981 when I was about 100 years younger.



These were taken on Egegik Beach southwest of King Salmon where we loaded freshly caught fish.




Here are a few pictures of TBM's C-117's at Sequoia Field











These were taken when TBM was trying to figure out if they could make the airplane into an air tanker.You can see an old F7F retardant tank under the belly on a bomb cart.They were trying to figure out what would be covered by a tank installation.





One of these days I need to scan the rest of my Fish Haul pictures,among others.

Perhaps not.

According to Squadron/Signal publication C-47 IN ACTION concerning the Super DC-3/C-117D type airplane:

"The engine nacelles were completely redesigned to accept either the P&W R-2000 or the Wright R-1820. ...Two standard aircraft, DC-3 and C-47, were modified to the Super DC-3 standards."

So, according to the references, the Super DC-3 type airplane can have either the Wright or the P&W. And the airplane is not a true production type but a conversion of an existing type."

TonyM

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"Welcome back Mr. Lasky."

Great pics Larry! Thanks for posting them.

Thanks for the info everybody. Man, those fish-haulers must have really smelled "interesting" inside after awhile!

SN