Doolittle chose the Mustang?

JDK · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:29 am

I have a recollection that James Doolittle decided that the 8th AF was to standardise on the Mustang, which was the main reason why the P-47 and P-38 were progressively phased out in the ETO.

Is this correct, and can anyone provide references to first hand sources on this?

Thanks.

JDK · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:34 pm

Bumpedy bump bump.

No one? Is thit a factoid or rumour not previously documented on the most ~yawn~ over-documented boringest looking fighter in preservation? :lol:

Someone must know.

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:59 pm

Quote:

why the P-47 and P-38 were progressively phased out in the ETO.

has the saying goes, i don't think you could throw a cat without hitting a p-47 in the eto. also the 474th fg never gave up the 38s while the 15th 38s flew many missions in the eto in late 44/45.

Holedigger · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:05 pm

I didn't say nottin' cuz I didn't know nuttin'. I don't ever recall reading or hearing that Doolittle specifically had anything to do with getting the P-51 at THE standardized fighter in the ETO. I know he was under pressure to take it to the enemy. That meant deep raids which needed little friends with long legs that could turn with the best of them. I doubt that the powers that be would have allowed a single type to be the ONLY fighter. The politics alone would have been dangerous let alone the retooling of all the non-Mustang plants.

Besides, it would have been a tough nut to crack telling the "limeys" that their Spit belonged in the dust bin because the Mustang was batter! :shock:

JDK · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:22 pm

Jack Cook wrote:

Quote:

why the P-47 and P-38 were progressively phased out in the ETO.

has the saying goes, i don't think you could throw a cat without hitting a p-47 in the eto. also the 474th fg never gave up the 38s while the 15th 38s flew many missions in the eto in late 44/45.

Maybe - no one's suggesting there were only P-51s there by the end. However that was the trend, was it not? - Units converted to P-51 from P-38 and P-47 (and often didn't like it) but not vice versa.

Quote:

Besides, it would have been a tough nut to crack telling the "limeys" that their Spit belonged in the dust bin because the Mustang was batter!

Well the Eagle Squadrons went to US equipment ASAP, didn't they? Dumped Spitfires for um, something P-... As for the RAF, that wasn't the US' business. The RAF didn't even fly in the ETO, that was a US term.

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:17 pm

with the exception of the 354th fg and 370th fg with 51s and the 474th fg with p-38s all 9th af fgs flew p-47s. plus of course the 56th fg 8th af kept their p-47s. not much of a trend?

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:26 pm

James,

I don't know for sure about this, but I suspect that the real issue was money. If you can trust the official history of the AAF in WWII the P-51 had some significant cost-savings in manufacturing and fuel. The quoted figures for buying a P-47 indicate that it cost approx. $85,500 for the US government to purchase and outfit it in 1944, while the P-51 could be bought for $51,500. The P-51 was also more efficient on fuel according to what I've seen.

Ryan

SaxMan · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:28 pm

Weight was also an issue IIRC. Being lighter, Mustangs could operate from grass strips more easily than the T-Bolt. That's not saying the T-Bolt couldn't, but with the weight difference, the 'bolt was more likely to sink into the ground if the ground was soft.

Having read "I Could Never Be So Lucky Again", I don't specifically recall any passages regarding that he chose the P-51. I know there was a fair amount discussed about the B-26, though.

JDK · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:33 pm

Thanks everyone. I'm damned if I can remember where I read it, and I may be confusing it with the famous role change order.

SaxMan wrote:

Having read "I Could Never Be So Lucky Again", I don't specifically recall any passages regarding that he chose the P-51. I know there was a fair amount discussed about the B-26, though.

Thanks, that's pretty solid.

Doolittle had to be one of the greatest (and smartest) aviators ever, on any measure. Is his autobiography a good read; and/or is there a good bio that people would recommend? I've given up on wasting my time on turgid accounts of great stories - getting picky in my old age.

k5083 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:36 pm

I think I actually remember the scene in Pearl Harbor where Alec Baldwin demands the switch to Mustangs.

August

JDK · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:39 pm

k5083 wrote:

I think I actually remember the scene in Pearl Harbor where Alec Baldwin demands the switch to Mustangs.

That's the WIX MIB at your door, for being silly.

No more silly. Right?

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:53 pm

JDK wrote:

Thanks everyone. I'm damned if I can remember where I read it, and I may be confusing it with the famous role change order.

SaxMan wrote:

Having read "I Could Never Be So Lucky Again", I don't specifically recall any passages regarding that he chose the P-51. I know there was a fair amount discussed about the B-26, though.

Thanks, that's pretty solid.

Doolittle had to be one of the greatest (and smartest) aviators ever, on any measure. Is his autobiography a good read; and/or is there a good bio that people would recommend? I've given up on wasting my time on turgid accounts of great stories - getting picky in my old age.

I tend to prefer I Could Never Be So Lucky Again by C. V. Glines is pretty good. He tends to be very respectful of his subject but also accurate and thorough. Also of interest are Calculated Risk by his granddaughter Jonna Doolittle Hoppes and Doolittle: A Biography by Lowell Thomas and Edward Jablonski. All three have interesting elements and are good reads.

Ryan

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:18 pm

Another interesting read - which may be of dubious historical accuracy, but nonetheless worth having, is The Amazing Mr. Doolittle by Quentin Reynolds. It was written in the 1950s and was apparently compiled from news articles and from around 200 friends and co-workers of Doolittle.

BTW, Doolittle was intimately aware of fuel production capabilities and performance from his time with Shell and I cannot but think that his understanding of this aspect of the air war would have had an influence on his decisions. At least once during the war he gave a whole talk about the importance of 100-octane fuel to the 8th.

Ah - here it is (source for this is I Could Never Be So Lucky Again : Doolittle did make it a point when he was not otherwise occupied to test out new aircraft, including the P-51 (pg. 293). He did directly ask for the new longer-range fighters - specifically P-51s (pg. 361-362). However, I found no direct evidence that he ONLY wanted the P-51. I think he was primarily interested in range and performance.

Ryan

warbird51 · **Joined:** Fri Jan 14, 2005 1:18 pm **Posts:** 263

I have read in several publications that Doolittle had decided to standarize on the P-51 to ease logistics of having to have parts for 3 different fighters.

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:55 pm

You should probably remove the 9th Af from the equation.

M/G Doolittle and a 12th AF B-26B 1943

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