Wrecked Navy Aircraft Question

[daveymac82c]

I was just admiring Jack's thread "For Wade CV OPS" and thought of something.

All those smashed up planes that probably could not be rebuilt to fly again, were they just dumped off the side (once the crew got out) or were they mostly held onto and scavenged for useable parts, or did that even hold onto them until they got into port?

I'd be interested to know what the standard operating procedure was for really smashed up airplanes on the deck? And I'd be interested to know how that SOP has changed over time.

If they dumped them it would be interesting to try and figure out where they dumped them and maybe go looking. Then again, it was probably really deep water wherever those aircraft carriers went.

Anyways, can anyone fill me in on my questions?

Thanks

David M

[TonyM]

US Navy aircraft are off limits for salvage. There have been some exceptions, but I wouldn't count on a break if you were thinking of putting a ton of money into it.

The link below was taken off Nick Veronico's WreckChasing message board.


http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post ... id=2834755

TonyM.

[daveymac82c]

Hey Tony,

Don't worry, I know a fair amount about the Navy and their rules about recoveries. It's a shame really.

Canada's kinda got something similar for plane wrecks. In that they can only be recovered if proven that the airframe will be preserved in museum or similar institution; otherwise it stays where it is.

And when I said "go looking" for these dumped planes I was merely suggesting finding them... there could be some neat treasures cast of the side of ships.

Anywho, my original question is still out there.

Cheers,

David

[Jack Cook]

If time permitted the a/c were picked over for parts then dumped over the side.
If a/c were landing it was just dumped.
Often if dead crewman were still in the a/c their remains were covered with a flag they were buried at sea with their a/c
Were jettisioned a A-7 and a A-6 on the Nimitz that were destroyed after
really bad flight deck fire.

[Edward Sheetmetalhands]

There was a conglomeration of stories in the book named Aces Against Japan. One was written by a Hellcat aviator, Harry Swineburn, that took off from the San Jacinto on 4-01-45 in a brand spanking new replacement Hellcat. After making a few strafing and rocket passes at some Japanese boats, he took a 20mm in the wing root, burning away 20 sq feet of the wing. He was able to nurse it back to the fleet where he was directed to land the damaged plane on the Hornet. After touchdown the still new "totaled" plane was pushed over the side, the only thing they took time to salvage was the canopy glass.

I suspect early in the war there was more salvage effort going on if they had the time, and later on it was pretty much, "NEXT!"

[daveymac82c]

Hey thanks for the answers.

Now, how does that compare to nowadays? I guess I can expect that the pilots are more heavily trained that kind of operation and that anything that doesn't appear like a safe landing is waved off before anything bad can happen.

But, if... by chance something like a crash on the deck or a fire does occur, I can't imagine they'd dump anything off the edge. Would they?

Cheers,

David

[Jack Cook]

Read what I wrote. We dumped 2 a/c.
Here's the story with my notes added................
A 20-mm. cannon on a jet (++A-7E++) parked aboard the supercarrier USS Nimitz was fired by mistake today, killing a sailor and setting six other aircraft ablaze on the ship's flight deck, but crews averted disaster by dousing the flames quickly, U.S. officials said.
A second crewman was severely burned in the fire (++He Died++), which was brought under control in about 20 minutes (++ actually 5 or less++), Navy spokesmen reported. They said a cannon on an A7 Corsair was fired accidentally (++actually it was pure stupidity++) during "troubleshooting maintenance" aboard the carrier in the Arabian Sea.
The 20-mm. shell exploded against another parked plane (++a fully fueled KA-6D++), starting a fire that eventually spread to six aircraft, A6 Intruders and A7s that had "minor to major damage (++burned out wrecks++)"

[warbird1]

Hey thanks for the answers.

Now, how does that compare to nowadays? I guess I can expect that the pilots are more heavily trained that kind of operation and that anything that doesn't appear like a safe landing is waved off before anything bad can happen.

But, if... by chance something like a crash on the deck or a fire does occur, I can't imagine they'd dump anything off the edge. Would they?

Cheers,

David

I asked that same question to one of my friends who flew S-3 Vikings in the 80's and 90's, so that's pretty close to modern times. He said that the Flight Deck on the carrier is much too busy to do any kind of crash recovery/retrieval for analysis. Most of the time there are still planes in the air and pilots' lives depend on getting back to that carrier deck safely. He said that on modern Carriers, there are numerous t.v. cameras on the flight deck at various angles, so any kind of crash/incident is fairly well documented. If the airplane had any kind of "black box" type flight or data recorder, then that was recovered. Otherwise, the planes and/or wreckage were pretty much just pushed over the side, unless it was minor damage and the plane could be moved quickly.

[Jack Cook]

That's really not accurate. A lot would depend on if the a/c over the foulline, we it's blue water OPS, is there a tank airborne ect. I really can't
imagine a situation so extreme the jet would just be thrown over the side.
We picked ours over and then deep sixed them.

[warbird1]

That's really not accurate. A lot would depend on if the a/c over the foulline, we it's blue water OPS, is there a tank airborne ect. I really can't
imagine a situation so extreme the jet would just be thrown over the side.
We picked ours over and then deep sixed them.

Well, that's what I was told. The former Viking driver was talking about catastrophic crashes where the airplanes were totaled, not minor accidents. Don't shoot me, I'm the messenger. He did have thousands of hours in Navy planes and retired as an O-5. I don't know what else to say, but I don't think he was lying to me.

[Jack Cook]

That's a pilot they fly off the deck they don't work on it
I said not really accurate not a lie

[warbird1]

That's a pilot they fly off the deck they don't work on it
I said not really accurate not a lie

O.K., I believe you.

[helinut]

So, let me get this straight, I know where there is a wreck of a grumman Goose in a lake in canada, it crashed on land then was taKen and disposed of in the lake... but it was really shallow where they dumped it , you can stand on the fuselage and your chest be out of the water, and there saying that I cant remove it...?

[Jack Cook]

Just keep it in Canada

[Canso42]

If you're thinking of dumping a current aircraft over the side, you'd defininetly need to pick it for weapons and electronics that you wouldn't want to fall into the wrong hands.