C-47/DC-3 question...

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:31 pm

Ok, so I'm interested in some stuff related to the Japanese copies of the DC-3. The captured Doolittle Raid prisoners likely were transported on board some or one of them back to Japan.
Would like to know if there are any folks on the board who could answer some technical questions related to their structures. If you are also familiar with DC-3 structures that would be helpful as well. How faithful were the copies? Please PM me off board if you are knowledgeable about this.

Ryan

JDK · **Posted:** Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:42 pm

I'm no expert, Ryan, but as they were license built, I'd expect the majority structure would be exactly the same. As I'm sure you've noted the cockpit glazing was extended aft, and a different equipment fit would be logical.

Good ref here: http://www.douglasdc3.com/japl2d/japl2d.htm

HTH!

Curtis Block · **Posted:** Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:54 am

Reportedly, the remains of an L2D "Tabby," exist in the #2 hold of the Momokawa Maru, sunk in Truck Lagoon Feb. 18, 1944.

Unfortunately I didn't have the opportunity to survey this wreck, and confirm these reports.

I have however been offered a formal invite back, by the FSM Ambassador to the US.

Maybe next time.

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:48 am

I did a bit of research on the Tabby a few years ago fro a model project. Structurally, the aircraft was similar to the DC-3 (NOT the C-47.) This means it had the earlier-style welded tube landing gear struts. Also, since the L2D was a Japanese cargo adaptation of the DC-3, the cargo door was different than a C-47 (a bit farther forward, and AFAIK no paratrooper jump door.)

Of course, the Tabby used Japanese engines and props.

SN

John Dupre · **Posted:** Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:15 am

I understand regarding the Tabby that the cockpit's rear bulkhead was further aft presumably to allow for a radio operator's station or flight engineer.

Nathan · **Posted:** Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:36 am

John Dupre wrote:

I understand regarding the Tabby that the cockpit's rear bulkhead was further aft presumably to allow for a radio operator's station or flight engineer.

The Tabby had more cockpit windows too.

famvburg · **Joined:** Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:41 am **Posts:** 540

Weren't some equipped with dorsal turrets as well, or am I thinking of the Soviet Li-2?

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:07 am

every contributing post thus far has been basically correct. you all get A'S for grades!! consider this........the license to build tabby only scratches the surface. japan built under license their version of the lockheed hudson, & bucher jungmann. they also purchased many other pre war birds for testing, such a seversky p-35 trainer w/ 2 seats, fairchild a942 flying boat, & douglas df flying boat.

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:20 am

Ok, interesting stuff so far. Also notice the Li-2 was mentioned. Almost forgot about that version.
Here's a question: Is the quality of workmanship, and compatibility between the copies such that say, a DC-3 outer wing panel could fit on a Tabby, or a complete DC-3 wing fit on a Li-2, or a tail fit on either?

Ryan

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:32 pm

bump...

Ryan

JDK · **Posted:** Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:20 pm

Hi Ryan,
I dunno about the fit, I doubt they'd be cross compatible, leaving aside any question of quality, just the nature of precision engineering in the period. You might be able to make bits fit, but not to modern airworthiness requirements, I suspect. That's just eddicated guesswork, of course.

I think you might get better answers on J Aircraft's forum (not my area, though) and titling any threads L2D 'Tabby'...

Tom, you're right, and a lot more too! And it's Bücker Jungmann. Them pesky dots included also. :lol:

Cheers,

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:34 pm

I believe the only version of the Tabby with an upper gun turret was the L2D3, and only a couple of prototypes of that version were built. It wasn't a turret as such, but a cupola with a hand-held flexible gun similar to the early Bettys, mounted above the navigator's compartment.

As Nathan mentioned, the L2D2 had extra windows extending back from the flight deck. It also had a round window in the forward crew door, and a small window in the underside of the nose (I didn't find out about that one until after I'd completed my model.) Another detail I didn't find out about until later was that the L2D didn't have the prominent leading edge landing lights of the DC-3/C-47.

Interestingly, as aluminum became scarce late in the war the Japanese were working on a version of the DC-3 made primarilly of wood. I've seen photos of the prototype in a dump after the war..not sure if it ever actually flew.

Somewhere I've got scans of the old Maru Mechanic that has some pretty thorough drawings of the Tabby. I can post them if anyone's interested.

Here are a couple of shots of my Tabby, in 1/72 scale.

SN

JDK · **Posted:** Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:43 pm

Steve Nelson wrote:

As Nathan mentioned, the L2D2 had extra windows extending back from the flight deck....

Er, me too! :oops:

A bit earlier. :wink:

BTW, Ryan, had a look at that link?

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:42 am

Well, I'm familiar with what the L2D looks like... and have posted pictures of it before.

Perhaps we will find an answer to this yet.

Didn't someone post some pictures several years back of a Li-2 that was being restored for the airshow circuit?

Steve - I'd like to get some copies of those drawings if possible...

Yes, I've had a look at the link. Have seen it before.

Ryan

JDK · **Posted:** Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:55 am

RyanShort1 wrote:

Didn't someone post some pictures several years back of a Li-2 that was being restored for the airshow circuit?

The Russian type? Yes.

Hungary:
http://www.goldtimer.hu/

It's certainly an interesting question. The Wiki page on the Li 2 is intriguing as to the Russian variations.

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C-47/DC-3 question...

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