b-25 IMC video

[Nathan]

sorry I am not posting this on the video thread but I thought this deserved its own thread. Does anyone have any info regarding this video.? Five B-25s take off tandom with the camera guy filming at the end of the runway when one B-25 could not take off and looked like he was gonna ram the camera guy but I guess with breaks smoking he was able to turn around and head back down the other way of the runway with B-25's taking off straight ahead of him!!!! All I wanna say his HOLY SH*T!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNNr0uDj ... re=related

[valdez25]

Super-cool!

[RyanShort1]

Talk about asking for trouble...

Ryan

[valdez25]

Talk about asking for trouble...

Ryan


Hey Ryan, Why is that?

[RyanShort1]

Talk about asking for trouble...

Ryan


Hey Ryan, Why is that?

Taxiing back onto a runway with two aircraft ready to go in sequence... taxiing at high speed right after a heavy braking action, etc... the video also mentions that the radios were quiet.
One would think that the smart thing to do would be to wait until the other two got off, then taxi back and takeoff.
Would also be interesting to know what caused the abort in the first place. Must not've been too bad or serious of an issue for them to go right back and try again. Wonder if they realized something wasn't configured properly.

Ryan

[Yak 11 Fan]

These were the B25's brought across to the UK in 1978 by Jeff Hawke for the film Hanover Street.

[warbird1]

Wow, did you see the poor directional control that one B-25 had? He was all over the runway. That pilot doesn't know how to use a rudder or keep an aircraft straight!

[mike furline]

Taxiing back onto a runway with two aircraft ready to go in sequence... taxiing at high speed right after a heavy braking action, etc... the video also mentions that the radios were quiet.
One would think that the smart thing to do would be to wait until the other two got off, then taxi back and takeoff.
Would also be interesting to know what caused the abort in the first place. Must not've been too bad or serious of an issue for them to go right back and try again. Wonder if they realized something wasn't configured properly.

Ryan

With safety concerns & common sense like that, we would have never won the war.

Entertaining to say the least.

Mike

[Chicoartist]

Wake turbulence -do- have an effect on keeping the old girl straight!

You should see the video I have of a MITO at Barksdale back in the day with G-model BUFs and A-model 135s. Black smoke all over the sky, and one BUF nearly loses it, or appears to, after obviously hitting some bad air. He's slipping and skidding fairly radically for such a large a/c, and very low to the ground. He recovered minus a seat cushion or two, I'm sure. Awesome!

Wade

[JDK]

sorry I am not posting this on the video thread but I thought this deserved its own thread. Does anyone have any info regarding this video.?

From one of the great warbird documentaries, B-25s do fly IMC. It's not commercially available, but you can get hold of it if you are persistent.

Essential viewing (IMHO) for serious warbird fanatics and featuring the large and larger than life John 'Jeff' Hawke, one of the last great buccaneers. Much better than the film Hannover Street that they were brought to the UK for.

[warbird1]

Wake turbulence -do- have an effect on keeping the old girl straight!

You should see the video I have of a MITO at Barksdale back in the day with G-model BUFs and A-model 135s. Black smoke all over the sky, and one BUF nearly loses it, or appears to, after obviously hitting some bad air. He's slipping and skidding fairly radically for such a large a/c, and very low to the ground. He recovered minus a seat cushion or two, I'm sure. Awesome!

Wade

Wake turbulence does have an effect, but I don't believe that's what caused the directional control problems in this case for a few reasons:

1) The drifting aircraft was # 2 in the takeoff sequence. Wake turbulence is only generated when an aircraft rotates and the nosewheel is off the runway. If you note where the #1 aircraft rotates, you will notice that the # 2 aircraft has directional control problems well prior to the rotation point of #1.

2) None of the other aircraft have any directional control problems on the takeoff roll to the severity that # 2 had.

3) The #2 aircraft has directional control problems both on the takeoff roll as well as the high speed back taxi. If it were wake turbulence, it would undoubtedly affect the other aircraft taking off as well. It didn't.

4) Generally speaking, wake turbulence has the most effect when it involves a case of a lighter aircraft taking off behind a heavier one. Although not impossible, it is unlikely that the wake turbulence from one B-25 would be strong enough to upset another one to the extent we see in this video.

This would indicate to me that one of two possibilities occurred: either the pilot is not using enough rudder to keep the aircraft straight or he had some kind of asymmetrical power and/or drag issue. This could have been caused by either a lack of power on one engine, a dragging brake, etc. If this was the issue, I don't see why he would be in such a hurry to take a bad aircraft into the air without investigation.

Also, a small observation. Notice that as #1 is starting to rotate, the #2 B-25 makes a pretty hard turn to his left just as he starts the takeoff roll. He then corrects and lines up but has drifted considerably off the runway centerline. This small jink as he's applying takeoff power is odd, as every airplane is on the runway and lined up pointing straight down the runway. Something caused that small jink, but I don't know what. Perhaps his nose wheel was not centered when he applied takeoff power?

So, either the pilot has seriously misused the rudders to keep directional control OR he had some kind of directional control malfunction which dictated an abort and he didn't investigate it very thoroughly. Added to this fact, he did a high speed back taxi on an active runway, without communicating it to the other flight members. Any way you slice it, this all points to very bad pilot judgement. I wonder just how much experience this pilot actually had who was flying the # 2 B-25?

Anybody see anything else that I could be missing?


Question for you B-25 pilot types. Is the B-25 nose wheel steerable, or is it just free-castoring? Could a defective nose-wheel have caused this directional control issue?

[B25PBYGUY]

Castor +/- 60 degrees. My opinion.....directional control issue by the the pilot flying. Who knows, maybe they were giving dual.

[Jerry O'Neill]

Great stuff. Been waiting to see it for a long time.
I really enjoyed it and I believe I saw one of those Mitchells overfly the highway in New Jersey on it's way to Worcester, Mass. way back when.

I couldn't tell by the flim or the commentary, but does anyone know who was flying #2 in that t/o sequence?
Jerry

[Nathan]

I think it was David Talichet! There is a part 4 in that video that mensions that one of the B-25's, piloted by David, had to turn back! There were 4 B-25's in the video out of the five. The one B-25 missing was the NMF one and that was the one that had trouble taking off.

[warbird1]

Castor +/- 60 degrees. My opinion.....directional control issue by the the pilot flying. Who knows, maybe they were giving dual.

Ah, that's a scenario that I hadn't thought of. It seems like an unlikely time to give dual though - on a ferry flight to a movie shoot in a mass formation interval takeoff! Even if they were training, the Pilot In Command should have taken control of the aircraft and situation earlier. Regardless, the PIC should not have allowed that back taxi stunt. Again, I question the PIC's judgement and decision making abillities.