Warbird Information Exchange

I was just looking at the accident report for Uncle Dean and his P-51, and there are some things on it I don't understand, could any of you help?

Under "Pilots Operating Experience" there is a title, "Phase and hours in this plane" and it has a "6" in it, what does that mean?

Under instruement rating is has a listing for "type" and it says "white" and gives the date 9/13/1944, and then it lists "Last check" and gives the same date. What does this mean? Does that mean the plane had not been checked for over two months before she crashed, and if it does was that common?

For total hours flown it lists "654.35" does that mean from when he completed pre-flight training in Sept. 1942? Or primary training in November, 1942, or basic in January, 1943? Regardless, it means he flew over 654 hours in 26 months. Was that normal for Recon pilots? That seems like a lot to me?

His combat hours are listed as 194.25. As near as I can recall, he was only in combat for six months. Which if my calculations are correct that means he averaged two hours a day every day for the whole time he was overseas. Was this common?

For hours this model: it lists, 425.25. Does that mean he flew 43-12252 all those hours, or just P-51's in general?

Under attached station: it says "Bartow AAF" and then handwritten over that is the number 4208. Does that mean anything?

If anyone is able to answer any of these questions, I thank you in advance. I have so much to learn, and I have forgotten a lot of what I first learned seven years ago.

Thanks again.
Karen

_________________
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of
us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"
- Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller, USMC

Karen,

The "Instrument Rating" information referes to the pilot's rating, not the aircraft. That means his last instrument proficiency check was 9/13/1944. Not sure what the "white" means in reference to the Instrument Rating.


The "Total Hours" begins the first flight in primary training, when he went up with an instructor, probably in a PT-17 biplane. It would be in the normal range to accumulate 225-250 hours flying time in training. His total of 654.35 hours in 26 months equals out to less than 26 hours per month. Considering recon missions could last 3-4 hours, this is really not all that much.

The "Combat Hours" total of 194.25 in 6 months again is not all that much. Six months is about 182 days, so that averages out a little over one hour per day.

The "Hours this Model" means hours in the P-51.

Hope this helps.

Walt

Thank you Walt. Yes, that explains a lot. I truly appreciate it.

_________________
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of
us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"
- Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller, USMC

The USAAF issued different color instrument rating cards for different levels of competency, the old joke was that if the color of the sky matched the color of your card you could fly in the given conditions.

This was somewhat similar to US Army practice during the Vietnam War in which there were Tactical Instrument Rated pilots who could penetrate clouds in a combat situation but not fly IFR in domestic airspace.

Tom-

Actually it's about average. Being close to the lines missions could last under a hour. In the MTO the standard was 50 missions he he almost flew double that!

_________________
Don't touch my junk!!

Thanks Jack!

According to the reports I have read Dean flew more missions and logged more hours than anyone else in his unit. Given what I have read about the enemy fire he faced when he flew, I thought an hour a day on average every day for the entire six months was remarkable, but then I am biased, and I know little about combat missions. Anyway thanks again!


Getting back to the above post about the color if blue meant you could fly, what did white mean?

_________________
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of
us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"
- Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller, USMC

Karen-

"If the color of the card matched the color of the sky you could fly", if you had a blue card you could only fly in relatively good weather (blue card/blue sky), if you had a white card you could fly when the sky was white....................as in cloudy. It was a bit more complex but you get the basic idea. The color of the card determined the required celing and visibility, also whether the pilot could dispatch himself or required authorization for dispatch.

Tom-

Has a whole the wartime single engine pursuit pilots received minimal instrument training. My cousin was a pre war Naval aviator who received more than the average wartime flyer yet he ill equipted to handle the marginal weather he launched in to investigate a bogey. He was a experience NA with approx 3000 flight hours when he crashed into the Sea of Japan in May 1945.

_________________
Don't touch my junk!!

I think I was at the former Bartow AFB this summer. I was at Bartow at least. There is a T-37 displayed there...

http://www.aerialvisuals.ca/LocationDos ... erial=4437

The place has been converted for comercial operations. There are still buildings, roads and other structures that seem like they are trying to tell a story. Interesting place.

Mike

_________________
Mike R. Henniger
Aviation Enthusiast & Photographer
http://www.AerialVisuals.ca
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Do you want to find locations of displayed, stored or active aircraft? Then start with the The Locator.
Do you want to find or contribute to the documented history of an aircraft? If so then start with the Airframes Database.

Yes Mike, where you were is where Bartow AAF was located, and yes, the roads and buildings are telling a story. They have retained one of the original towers, it is red and white. There is also a lot more of the original there, but most of it escapes me at the moment. I seem to recall being told that the tie-downs visible in so many of the pictures I have are still visible..... at least the indentations in the concrete are. I also recall something about a train depot? I really need to dig out all my information and go back through it again. It has been awhile. I will post some recent Bartow pictures with explanations when I find them.

Karen

_________________
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of
us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"
- Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller, USMC

All joking aside, I don't know what color USAAF Instrument rating cards were in 1944 but ten years later in 1954, they were either green or white. There were extra qualifications required and priveleges granted for the green card holder. The white card was the basic USAF instrument rating and until about 1956-57 only the green card rating could be used for issuing the CAA (civilian) instrument rating on a CAA pilots license without the CAA written and flight check. The "blue card" was only valid in jokes!

Fortunately for me, when I was getting ready to get out of the USAF and hopefully fly as an airline pilot, I had passed the written exam and was getting ready to learn how to fly a Piper Tri-pacer for the check ride when the CAA said that the USAF white card was now a real instrument rating.

I had tried to get clearance for a CAA Examiner to go along on my last USAF Instrument Check Ride in a KC-97 but SAC said no to that idea! The CAA said was OK to fly a military 4 engine transport in weather but if it was a civilian 4-engine transport, I had to pass an instrument check in a Tri-Pacer first! Go figure.

_________________
It's what you learn after you think you know it all, that counts.

Jack-

Thanks for the refresher, your details of the White/Green cards are as I remember hearing from those who received their instrument ratings in both the USAAF and USAF. White card/white sky, Green card/green sky, the joke was that if the sky was darker than the white card you stayed on the ground.

Tom-