CORSAIR Q........

[kenlyco]

Some of you remember me having a post on this but Recently I had a conversation with a person that was at the Bridgeport airport the day a friend of mine lost his life in a Corsair on takeoff.I will try and make this really short if I can. Joe repaired his A/C from a ground loop he had mth's before ,he was landing and one wheel was straight and the other was flat into the wind we were all jumping around on the ramp like a bunch of nutcase's trying to make him go around but he did not see us and the tower did not either,anyways he was in for a big surprise but faired well as the A/C spun into the grass damaging the gear and left aileron.On the day of his accident he was having electrical problems but there was a former Vought mechanic there he helped us out.Ok so he started the A/C up and it was sounding a little ruff but he increased throttle after warm up and it sounded like it was cleaning up .He taxied down to position and proceded with his run up and from a distance it just did not sound as if you were right next to it ,still a little ruff, I was hoping he would come back but he was so determined to get that bird back in the air .The Aircraft taxied and held and he pushed it hard with the brakes on and then he released and she was hauling ass ,It sounded great coming at me i was only twenty feet from the runway fiming with his camera ,as she went by me on the two mains thats when i got a knot in my stomach she was puffing some black smoke and he yanked her right off the runway,she was doing ok then suddenly it was like some one tied a big rubber band on the tailwheel and she was crying for clean air ,if any of you been in my shoes that day it was the sickess feeling you can have .So the reason I bring this up again ,sorry but after over 25 years you think it would be gone. The person that I talked to was standing another 100 yds's down the runway and he said it sounded like the engine RPM's were screaming but he was not getting any bite in the air, which eventually stalled to the left and as you can see the outcome, does any of my fellow Wixer's have any answers? is there a prop RPM to engine RPM control adjustment? I always thought the Corsair can power out of a stall as long as you have it, dont know what kind of airspeed he had.

[n5151ts]

went "flat" the higher the RPM the flatter it goes....but then I don't know anything about corsairs.

[Bluedharma]

whoa...
kenlyco,
I know it was 25 years ago.... but sorry for your loss.
That must have been hard to go through.

Is there some type of report avail? Like NTSB?
NTSB was around in 1967... so would there be a report?

Could you post a link to your other post? I must have missed that one.

Regards,

[kenlyco]

NTSB Identification: NYC81FA060
14 CFR Part 91 General Aviation
Event occurred Sunday, June 07, 1981 in STRATFORD, CT
Aircraft: CHANCE VOGT F4U-4, registration: N4907M

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FILE DATE LOCATION AIRCRAFT DATA INJURIES FLIGHT PILOT DATA F S M/N PURPOSE----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------3-2853 81/6/7 STRATFORD,CT CHANCE VOGT F4U-4 CR- 1 0 0 NONCOMMERCIAL PRIVATE, AGE 51, 1100 TIME - 1113 N4907M PX- 0 0 0 PLEASURE/PERSONAL TRANSP TOTAL HOURS, 3 IN TYPE, DAMAGE-DESTROYED OT- 0 0 0 NOT INSTRUMENT RATED. NAME OF AIRPORT - IGOR I SIKORSKY DEPARTURE POINT INTENDED DESTINATION BRIDGEPORT,CT LOCAL TYPE OF ACCIDENT PHASE OF OPERATION STALL TAKEOFF: INITIAL CLIMB PROBABLE CAUSE(S) PILOT IN COMMAND - INADEQUATE PREFLIGHT PREPARATION AND/OR PLANNING MISCELLANEOUS ACTS,CONDITIONS - INCORRECT TRIM SETTING PILOT IN COMMAND - FAILED TO ABORT TAKEOFF PILOT IN COMMAND - FAILED TO OBTAIN/MAINTAIN FLYING SPEED FACTOR(S) PILOT IN COMMAND - LACK OF FAMILIARITY WITH AIRCRAFT PILOT IN COMMAND - IMPROPER OPERATION OF POWERPLANT & POWERPLANT CONTROLS WEATHER - UNFAVORABLE WIND CONDITIONS WEATHER BRIEFING - NO RECORD OF BRIEFING RECEIVED WEATHER FORECAST - UNKNOWN/NOT REPORTED SKY CONDITION CEILING AT ACCIDENT SITE BROKEN 4500 VISIBILITY AT ACCIDENT SITE PRECIPITATION AT ACCIDENT SITE 5 OR OVER(UNLIMITED) NONE OBSTRUCTIONS TO VISION AT ACCIDENT SITE TEMPERATURE-F NONE 74 WIND DIRECTION-DEGREES WIND VELOCITY-KNOTS 310 18 TYPE OF WEATHER CONDITIONS TYPE OF FLIGHT PLAN VFR NONE REMARKS- WITNESSES RPRTD SWERVE/RPM DROP DRG GND ROLL,CONTD TKOF.AIL TRIM 5DEG L,ELEV TRIM NOSE DN.GST 26KT

[bipe215]

Purely conjecture, but did he pull it off he ground prematurely and the torque rolled it. Your comment that it was clawing the air sounds like he got it off in ground effect and was too slow to climb out of it. Being out of trim would not help. Do you know about his previous experience? Any T-6 time?

Steve G

[kenlyco]

It all point's to pilot error in the reports and to people who were there,but I still think he was qualified to fly the A/C.he did have T-6 time and did fly the A/C 4 or 5 times before the accident ,I guess he just was not qualified to react to the situation he found himself in. the feds got the video I thought, till I wrote to the NTSB and they said it was not in the packet.I guess I need to just chalk it up as pilot error.

[The Inspector]

Those are gut wrenchers and I appreciate and acknowledge your continuing anguish, I watched two friends get blown up in a SABRELINER @ Lake Front on N.O. over 30 years ago, one survived the other was KOI and I still get hit with thoughts of them at odd times. Had a really good friend fall off the wing of a GOOSE he was preflighting, hit his head and died.

If you are in aviation, you will lose dear ones and friends usually to something dumb or from error or, worst of all oversight.

I've had friends packed out in rubber bags, packed out mixed in the twisted wreckage, and the very hardest of all-the ones I hope someone finds before I die so I can have closure .

I approach every task , no matter how trivial. with 100% attention to detail because, in this endevour, nothing is too tiny to kill you or someone else and that is what I try to instill in every student who passes through my classes "you are messing with a million lives every time you touch that airplane, you screw up and 300 people die in a corn field. If you can't accept that level of responsability, please get out of my profession"

Always remember O'Tooles Commentary "Murphy was a F---ing optomist"

[CAPFlyer]

I'm seeing several discrepancies with this NTSB report.

First -

The report states a drop in RPM and loss in power, but Ken reported that the witness said the RPMs were very high before the accident as if the prop had gone into flat (fine) pitch (loss of prop control).

Second -

The NTSB report states that the elevator trim was nose down. I'm wondering how they rectify this with the obvious position of the trim tab on the aircraft being in a Nose UP position (deflected down compared to the rest of the elevator). Because of the way the Corsair's trim system works, I would tend to believe that the pictures of the complete wreckage and of the tail is indicative the pre-impact position of the trim tab, not post impact.

[kenlyco]

This is why I brought this up again.

[bipe215]

Sounds like a series of minor errors leading up to the accident. Rough running engine, incorrect settings on trim, pulling it off too early or possibly a gust contributing to coming off early. Just a sad deal.

Steve G

[BigGrey]

What are the recommended trim settings for take-off in a Corsair?
The NTSB report doesn't sound quite right. How do they know the pilot didn't roll in nose down trim after take-off? They just state that the pilot had the trim wrong due to the position they found the trim in after the crash.
And if the plane came apart in the crash and severed/damaged the control continuity to the tail section, would the elevator trim tab just hang down making it appear that the trim tab was in the nose up position?

They also place blame on the pilot's failure to abort the take-off. How much runway was remaining and what obstacles were ahead?

All in all it was a tragic day. The NTSB report leaves me wondering though.

Les

[kenlyco]

BigGrey here you go.

[Warbird Kid]

Now that is one familiar airport.

[bipe215]

So he was flying for about 3000 ft after the left turn. How much altitude did he get? Did he look like he was behind the power curve the whole time?

Steve G

[BigGrey]

Ken, thank you for the diagram. It does appear he had enough runway remaining to abort.
But since I was not there I can hardly pass judgement on that days events. I am sorry for your loss of a friend.

Les