Warbird Information Exchange

It appears to be a very bad year for the USAF....

A Nellis AFB, NV, based F-15D 'Agressor' a/c went down today - one pilot dead, one in critical but stable condition

http://www.fox5vegas.com/news/17042660/detail.html#-

prayers and thoughts to family and friends.

Martin

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Flying is easy: just learn how to throw yourself at the ground and miss

sad.... & a sad commentary that our equiptment is wearing out in this cash strapped economy. our troops deserve much better. the heck with financial aid to other nations, we need to support the troops here.

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

the eagle design was proposed in 1969.....were you even born then? its a pretty old aircraft by most standards.

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EVERYTHING that CAN fly should be ALLOWED to FLY!
IWO JIMA'S best narative..."GOD ISN'T HERE"
http://www.amazon.com/God-Isnt-Here-Ame ... 0976154706


P: Noise coming from under instrument panel. Sounds like a midget pounding on something with a hammer.

S: Took hammer away from midget.

Unless I've missed something, I think it's a bit early to say that this was equipment failure. The last I read, the investigation is ongoing.

Yes, it's sad. Godspeed to the crewman and his/her family, and a speedy recovery to the other.

I don't know anything about the accident other than it occurred and we lost one of our own.

My two cents are that I wouldn't doubt structural failure. Those planes probably get tossed around pretty good and potentially flung past their G limits. If a pilot exceeds the max. G limitations of the airplane it won't always mean it will fall apart right then. It could break up while flown by the next unknowing pilot (possibly even while doing a maneuvre well within the normal G limits of the plane). These things are often hard to catch unless the pilot over-G'ing the airplane speaks up; otherwise there's little evidence to indicate such internal damage.

Again that's just my two cents. This accident may very well have absolutely nothing to with surpassing G limitations, I'm just voicing one possibility that may have lead to this horrible accident.

My thoughts go out to the family and friends of the fallen pilot.

-David

Maybe at some point Randy H. will chime in as this is what he flies.
Everything is speculation until the investigation sheds some light on this.
Rich

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Rich Palmer

Remember an Injured Youth
benstear.org
#64- Stay Strong and Keep the Faith

BOOM BOOM, ROUND ROUND, PROPELLER GO

Don't Be A Dilbert!

I've been retired from the USAF for 12 years and the loss of a single AF brother still sickens me to no end. My sympathies go out to the families of those involved in the accident.

This still chills me to the bone. The worst thing, by far, I ever had to do while in the AF was be on a death notification team. I cannot tell you how terrible this is - and remember, we still have guys getting killed in theater as well.

Lord, guard and guide the men who fly
And those who on the ocean ply;
Be with our troops upon the land,
And all who for their country stand:
Be with these guardians day and night
And may their trust be in Thy might

God be with all of these fine men and women and their families.

It's pretty hard to over "G" any of the modern birds without maintenance finding out. Most of them have systems that will record such an event and not be accessable to the flight crew but are checked during post/preflight inspections. Depending on the severity of the event, that will dictate what inspections have to be accomplished prior to further flight. Randy may be able to address the F-15 and it's system.

Another thing..knowingly having an event and not reporting it, is recklessly endangering a fellow pilot or crew members. I can imagine the fur flying in more than one way, should an unreported event cause the subsequent loss of the aircraft or the inury or death of a crew member.

Is it even possible to "over-G" a modern fighter jet? I recall hearing that was not possible with the F-16 and F-18 because the computer simply would not permit it. Haven't heard that about the F-15, but it would not surprise me.

Randy? Where are you? We need your knowledge!

Cheers!

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Dean Hemphill, K5DH
Port Charlotte, Florida

i was 8 years old

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

Unless it happened during the same flight....

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Those who possess real knowledge are rare.

Those who can set that knowledge into motion in the physical world are rarer still.

The few who possess real knowledge and can set it into motion of their own hands are the rarest of all.

Yes, it's quite easy to over G both the F-15 and F-16 -- not sure about the Hornet.

With the F-16, although "HAL" -- the flight control computer -- attempts to limit the jet to its maximum available G when the pilot yanks the stick back, it's still possible to over G during some types of maneuvering. My Viper driver buddies tell me it is rare, but it can happen.

The F-15 is highly susceptible to over G. There is no flight control limiter, and the max G changes depending on fuel weight and airspeed. In the F-15E, most of the time this G limit is 9.0, but above 500 knots that limit is lowered. I have seen guys pull 10, 11, 12Gs either by accident or on purpose to avoid a mid-air.

I can't comment on the accident at this time, though...sorry.

If an Over G occurs, the sortie is over, we stop fighting and we go home.

Sure, even modern jets can be over-G'd. Remember, their max G can be related to stores configuration or fuel load, to name a couple - not just one number to memorize. That said, take a deep breath and let's wait for the investigators to do their job. When the AA Airbus went in after departing from JFK everyone just KNEW it was terrorism again - only to learn it was structural.

Sadly, we've lost many, many talented folks in the Nellis ranges, both US and Allied. Please say an extra prayer for all the famililes who are/or will be affected by this incident.

Ken

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"Take care of the little things and the big things will take care of themselves."