P-51B 43-12451 "Peggy" AKA "Live Bait"

Shay · **Posted:** Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:43 pm

I hope you like Dinah Shore.

Never knew a B model took down a ME 262 (is that right?).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TDrP0p45_A&feature=user

Shay
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Semper Fortis

Dan Johnson II · **Joined:** Tue May 04, 2004 1:49 am **Posts:** 659

I imagine by April 45 he'd have been flying a 51D when he got his 262.

Shay · **Posted:** Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:58 pm

Dan Johnson II wrote:

I imagine by April 45 he'd have been flying a 51D when he got his 262.

2 minutes 29 secs

Shows Capt. Gross on the wing of LIVE BAIT with his 6 kills. Am I percieving that incorrectly?

Although I will admit 04/44 is awfully late for a OD P-51B. But then again I learned yesterday from Jack that Razorback P-47s were still operationally used up til the end of the war. :shock:

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

Silver Dollar · **Posted:** Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:03 pm

It just goes to show you that in order to shoot down a superior aircraft all the shooter has to do is be in the right place while the other guy has to be in the wrong place at the same time. The result? Down goes the bad guy.

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:21 pm

Quote:

Although I will admit 04/44 is awfully late for a OD P-51B.

Actually OD P-51Bs were actually well into Sept 44 or later.
Gross was flying a P-51D-20 for his ME-262 kill. After the switch from P-47Ds all they received were newer (or pretty new Ds).
Also relating to the video.................
The shot of the 3 ground crew working on the P-51B from the right are Lt Chuck Gumm's crew of "My Toni" Sgt Lippoff-armorer, Sgt Seeger-asst crew chief and SSgt Leonard-crew chief.
Gil Talot never flew or shared GQ+I Live Bait/Peggy. The Peggy on this a/c refers to the crew chief's (Sgt Smith) wife named Peggy.
Gil Talbot P-51B and P-51D were GQ+P and named Peggy/Deacon. The portrait shot of Gross is a cropped version of the original which showed also Talbot and Jim Kenyon.
Jim Howard is also shown with 355th FS pilots inc Glen Buer.

Shay · **Posted:** Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:39 pm

Jack Cook wrote:

Quote:

Although I will admit 04/44 is awfully late for a OD P-51B.

Actually OD P-51Bs were actually well into Sept 44 or later.
Gross was flying a P-51D-20 for his ME-262 kill. After the switch from P-47Ds all they received were newer (or pretty new Ds).
Also relating to the video.................
The shot of the 3 ground crew working on the P-51B from the right are Lt Chuck Gumm's crew of "My Toni" Sgt Lippoff-armorer, Sgt Seeger-asst crew chief and SSgt Leonard-crew chief.
Gil Talot never flew or shared GQ+I Live Bait/Peggy. The Peggy on this a/c refers to the crew chief's (Sgt Smith) wife named Peggy.
Gil Talbot P-51B and P-51D were GQ+P and named Peggy/Deacon. The portrait shot of Gross is a cropped version of the original which showed also Talbot and Jim Kenyon.
Jim Howard is also shown with 355th FS pilots inc Glen Buer.

Sorry i'mean't my comment as an uninformed opnion.

So is that not Capt. Gross on the wing of P-51B 43-12451 LIVE BAIT with his 6 kills at 2 mins 29 secs?

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

hmmmmmm?

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:48 pm

I never said that.
That photo was taken on June 14, 1944 on airstrip A-1 in France by a Infantry Major who mailed it to Gross's mother in WA.
Kelly never even knew of the photo until after his mom passed away.
Kelly's P-51D GQ+I was s/n 44-63668 which went post war to the Swiss AF has did Talbot GQ+I Peggy/Deacon s/n 44-63555. Over to you Martin.

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:55 pm

Gil Talbot's Peggy/Deacon April 1945

Capt Kelly Gross by his P-51D "Live Bait"

Capt Kelly Gross, , Major Gil Talbot-OPS 355th FS, Major Marshall Cloke-CO 355th FS& Capt Lewis Powers

Major Talbot checks the 500# GPB on his P-47D

Shay · **Posted:** Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:44 pm

Great shots Jack.

Came across this one over on LittleFriends of 43-12451 after the war.

From the 479th FG gallery

Quote:

Taxiing accident at Station 377 Wattisham on 4 January 1945. P-51B 43-12451 9B-3 “Ruth” of Clobber College with Lt. George P Rossman at the controls was in collision with P-51D 44-14624 9B-W “Lady Kay” being piloted by Lt. Richard P Thrall.

Shay
_____________
Semper Fortis

Jim Beasley · **Posted:** Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:55 pm

Great B model scheme....

jb

Shay wrote:

I hope you like Dinah Shore.

Never knew a B model took down a ME 262 (is that right?).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TDrP0p45_A&feature=user

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

Starduster77 · **Joined:** Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:00 am **Posts:** 169

Good photo's guy's.
In the youtube bit the part were it said Gil Talbot and a question mark next to the name the pilot they show looks like Maj. Stephens.
Rick

Swiss Mustangs · **Posted:** Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:32 am

Jack Cook wrote:

Kelly's P-51D GQ+I was s/n 44-63668 which went post war to the Swiss AF has did Talbot GQ+I Peggy/Deacon s/n 44-63555. Over to you Martin.

did I read my name ? :lol:

- corrections to Jack's post are bold

44-63668 GQ-I became Swiss AF J-2087 - it initially was Robert J. Ramer's "Ensign~Babs" before becoming Gross' "Live Bait / Peggy"

44-63666 GQ-P became Swiss AF J-2064 - it was Talbot's "Peggy / the Deacon"

Martin

Stoney · **Posted:** Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:12 am

Kelly Gross is a regular at the PDX QB hangar.

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:34 am

Yes Martin 666.........stupid big finger

Has for the 'I' just plain stupid but I got it right the first time!
That is Bob Stephens!

Rogue · **Posted:** Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:09 pm

http://www.ww2livebait.com/

Good book!

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P-51B 43-12451 "Peggy" AKA "Live Bait"

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