1941 HAGM C-119 (Phoenix)

[crusader1]

Hello Folks, As you may know, I'm spearheading yet another attempt to restore the C-119 located at the 1941 Historical Aircraft Group Museum in Geneseo N.Y. This will be a STATIC restoration, and the markings will be the original Canadian markings. I've been trying to gather the correct info on the plane, as it seems, wherever I look, each source has something slightly different from the last. First, can anyone tell me when the plane first arrived at Geneseo? All I have is "about 1991." Second, where can I look and/or who can I contact to get info and pictures of her in her Canadian Service with 436 Squadron as 22103? Third, has anyone reading this served on her or know someone who did that I can contact? Lastly, any info on her that explains why a couple of sources state she was built in 1948, when everything else points to her completion in 1952, would really make me feel a lot more comfortable about her age. I have other questions, but this is a good start. Thanks for your help. I really appreciate it.
be Safe,
Tom K.

[RMAllnutt]

I believe that this aircraft was at Geneseo by 1989 at the latest, as that was the first year I attended the airshow, and I am almost certain that she was there then. I will have to check my photos. At the time, I was told that she was owned by the NASM, and so could not fly. Apparently she'd been seized on a drug run. Does HAG actually own the aircraft now?

I must admit to being really glad that she is going to be restored, even if it's only cosmetically, and especially pleased that the original Canadian markings will be applied. That's terrific news. I wish I could help you on the markings, but why not go to the source...

RCAF C-119 22110



http://www.435-436.org/c-119.htm

I am sure that you will be able to get some help from the 436 Sqn. Association.

All the best,
Richard

PS. The first C-119 was accepted into RCAF service in Sept. 1952, and I believe they were new-build for the Canadians. 436 wasn't re-established until April 1, 1953. First flight of any C-119 was in November 1947. Production models (C-119B's) were not delivered to the US Air Force until December 1949. I really doubt that Canadian C-119F aircraft were being built in 1948, unless of course that the RCAF got re-conditioned aircraft, instead of new-builds. 1952 seems like a safe bet as being the year when 22103 was completed.

[wls3]

Tom,

I think you have probably seen this, but if not, I thought it was interesting.
Scroll down a bit on this page till you see the pics of the HAG's C-119.
This gentleman was a flight engineer and last flew on the a/c in 1963.

http://www.ruudleeuw.com/tmp-photos.htm

Bill

[Nathan]

Yep, Bill Reid is on the 1941hag message board and is being very helpful for the information that we need.

[K225]

My father was aircrew on the C119 both with 435 and 436 squadron, including a year in the Gaza back in '56. Lots of interesting stories especially involving engine changes in some out of the way places.
Eric has some great photos on his site:
http://www.airic.ca/html/pftpboxcar.html
Sure would like to see one back up here especially at Trenton sitting beside a Yukon and North Star.
Best of luck with her, I vividly remember standing on the tarmac at CJATC Rivers, late at night and by myself. The last four still in service were lined up around me I had a great lump in my throat, thought it would be the last time I would see them.
Why do we get attached to these huge lumps of metal?? Wish my dad was still here to see her.
If you check out CanMilAir they have a number of publications on markings used on RCAF aircraft, their site is interesting as well outlining some of the history. http://www.canmilair.com/schemes.htm

[wmburns]

Tom,

Second, where can I look and/or who can I contact to get info and pictures of her in her Canadian Service

I have a couple of photos of 22103 at different times during her career. Contact me at admin@canmilair.com and I will email them to you.

Lastly, any info on her that explains why a couple of sources state she was built in 1948, when everything else points to her completion in 1952, would really make me feel a lot more comfortable about her age.

Don't know if this will help or hinder, but the RCAF ordered 35 Boxcars between September 8, 1952 and October 6, 1953 and Boxcar 22103 had a prior USAF serial of 51-2689 (Fairchild c/n of 10678). So if I understand the USAF serial system, if it was financed in the 1951 budget year, it couldn't have been built in 1948, but in 1952.

If I can be of any assistance during the markings stage of your restoration project, let me know. See

http://www.canmilair.com/restorations.htm

for more information.