Local Air Show Scene Rant
Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:31 pm
I'm kind of annoyed at how far away I'd have to go to see a good 'ol warbird airshow.
We've got a few air shows in the Vancouver area, with the biggest being the Abbotsford Air Show. The Abbotsford Air Show is good and all, but it seems to be all jets, jets, jets, jets, and hardly any warbirds. I could just about count all the warbirds on one of my hands. It's almost as if the warbirds are only there because they are required to have them there. Not to mention they're in a very poor place to be photographed. Considering at the last Abbotsford Air Show the most popular aerial display was the warbird fly past, I'm surprised they don't make a move to have more of it. It's a little tiring seeing yet fighter display after jet fighter display.
I fantasize about airshows like Geneseo, etc. and wish I could run a warbird airshow in Vancouver that could attract more than 2 Harvard's, more than one twin engine (anything type), and maybe a single Mustang. I saw a picture of Geneseo with 6 Harvards in a row, and I can only imagine there were more elsewhere on the field. Seeing 2+ P-40's, 2+ Spitfires, 1+ Hurricanes, a Lancaster, 1+ B-17's, 5+ Stearmans, 5+ Harvards..... that would be my description of heaven. Sigh...
Can anyone explain why Vancouver doesn't seem to be a destination for warbirds?
Rant off.
- David
We've got a few air shows in the Vancouver area, with the biggest being the Abbotsford Air Show. The Abbotsford Air Show is good and all, but it seems to be all jets, jets, jets, jets, and hardly any warbirds. I could just about count all the warbirds on one of my hands. It's almost as if the warbirds are only there because they are required to have them there. Not to mention they're in a very poor place to be photographed. Considering at the last Abbotsford Air Show the most popular aerial display was the warbird fly past, I'm surprised they don't make a move to have more of it. It's a little tiring seeing yet fighter display after jet fighter display.
I fantasize about airshows like Geneseo, etc. and wish I could run a warbird airshow in Vancouver that could attract more than 2 Harvard's, more than one twin engine (anything type), and maybe a single Mustang. I saw a picture of Geneseo with 6 Harvards in a row, and I can only imagine there were more elsewhere on the field. Seeing 2+ P-40's, 2+ Spitfires, 1+ Hurricanes, a Lancaster, 1+ B-17's, 5+ Stearmans, 5+ Harvards..... that would be my description of heaven. Sigh...
Can anyone explain why Vancouver doesn't seem to be a destination for warbirds?
Rant off.
- David
Warbird City
Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:38 pm
Friend,
Come to the THUNDER OVER MICHIGAN Airshow this August 9-10, 2008. It will be Warbird City.
Plenty of warbird action for you. We will be dropping WWII paratroopers from our C-47.
There will be B-17, B-24 (I think), B-25, P-47, C-47 and others. Plenty of AT-6 and PT-17 too I reckon. Well worth your while. Looking forward to seeing you there.
TonyM.
Come to the THUNDER OVER MICHIGAN Airshow this August 9-10, 2008. It will be Warbird City.
Plenty of warbird action for you. We will be dropping WWII paratroopers from our C-47.
There will be B-17, B-24 (I think), B-25, P-47, C-47 and others. Plenty of AT-6 and PT-17 too I reckon. Well worth your while. Looking forward to seeing you there.
TonyM.
Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:42 pm
David,
Save those air show dineros for Chino next May.
Save those air show dineros for Chino next May.
Midland, Texas
Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:01 am
The CAF/FINA Airshow at Midland, Texas, is also a good one. That will be September 20-21, 2008, if you can't wait for Chino's great air show next May. At Midland, Texas, seems that there is about 20 WWII airplanes in the air almost constant. Nearly 100 WWII airplanes on hand--something like 18 to 24 AT-6 airplanes flying together--just like WWII. The Tora Tora Tora squadron bomb the airfield at the beginning of the show. B-24 and P-51 buzzing around even while the performers are eating and partying in the Colonel's Tent after the show. Plenty of round engines for the guy who just can't get enough.
TonyM.
TonyM.
Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:30 am
See my reply to this question in your Y2K Spitfire thread. Your question as to why the Abbotsford airshow doesn't have more of a warbird presence is very simple. The organizers, take them for what they're worth, decided years ago that they could put on a much better show by paying the US and Canadian militaries to bring large and fast jets which make lots of noise, and that local warbirds would just show up and do the show without any compensation (fuel). On top of that, while military pilots were getting wined and dined in the chalets, civilian pilots (not including acrobatic acts) were expected to provide their own food and admission to the show. Most local warbirders got fed up, and as a result they would rather take their airplanes down south for shows like Olympia, Arlington (before the debacle), and Fairchild.
Believe it or not, there was a day when no less than 6 Harvards/T-6s were based at Delta Airpark. Not to mention some T-28s, a couple Tiger Moths, a few Chipmunks and many more. A weekly occurrence would see those airplanes all come to life on Saturday morning for a day of formation practice and turning gas into noise all over the Fraser Valley, practicing for shows like Penticton, Victoria, Comox, and the yearly West Coast warbird gathering. You can thank the GVRD, the NIMBYs, and the combined airspaces of CYVR and CZBB for putting a stop to that scene. Vancouver used to be a major destination for warbirds, thanks to the members of the Western Warbirds, the Confederate Air Force, the CWH, and the early founders of the Cascade Warbirds. Once a year the WW would have a "squadron gathering", usually in conjunction with the shows at places like Oliver, Nelson, Crystal Lakes, Vanderhoof, Namao, Lethbridge, and Comox. Warbirders would come from the "Gopher Wing" (Alberta warbirders), "Seagull Wing" (BC warbirders, and there was another name for the Ontario wing but I forget. They were the group responsible for bringing the CAF and CWH to the Abbotsford airshows, and in turn they took the whole fleet of 50+ airplanes to Oshkosh, Hamilton, and Harlingen. Unfortunately, fuel, insurance, lack of willingness, lack of reciprocity, and family commitments etc. brought it to an end. A few still continue on, going to the local American shows and enjoying what they do. You also have to remember that this was a generation ago, many of whom have passed on, taken up golf, or just stopped flying. A great number of those involved in that scene have seen a Mustang fly enough times (usually because they were the ones flying it) that they don't need to experience it any more, and they have passed the torch onto the next generation to carry it on. I count myself extremely fortunate to have been able to experience even at the tail end the warbird movement in the Vancouver area before it completely extinguished, and as a new pilot (and with the luck to be in my current position) I plan on keeping the warbird movement alive and to carry on the names and the legacies of those who brought me up in the warbird world.
I fantasize about airshows like Geneseo, etc. and wish I could run a warbird airshow in Vancouver that could attract more than 2 Harvard's, more than one twin engine (anything type), and maybe a single Mustang. I saw a picture of Geneseo with 6 Harvards in a row, and I can only imagine there were more elsewhere on the field. Seeing 2+ P-40's, 2+ Spitfires, 1+ Hurricanes, a Lancaster, 1+ B-17's, 5+ Stearmans, 5+ Harvards..... that would be my description of heaven. Sigh...
Believe it or not, there was a day when no less than 6 Harvards/T-6s were based at Delta Airpark. Not to mention some T-28s, a couple Tiger Moths, a few Chipmunks and many more. A weekly occurrence would see those airplanes all come to life on Saturday morning for a day of formation practice and turning gas into noise all over the Fraser Valley, practicing for shows like Penticton, Victoria, Comox, and the yearly West Coast warbird gathering. You can thank the GVRD, the NIMBYs, and the combined airspaces of CYVR and CZBB for putting a stop to that scene. Vancouver used to be a major destination for warbirds, thanks to the members of the Western Warbirds, the Confederate Air Force, the CWH, and the early founders of the Cascade Warbirds. Once a year the WW would have a "squadron gathering", usually in conjunction with the shows at places like Oliver, Nelson, Crystal Lakes, Vanderhoof, Namao, Lethbridge, and Comox. Warbirders would come from the "Gopher Wing" (Alberta warbirders), "Seagull Wing" (BC warbirders, and there was another name for the Ontario wing but I forget. They were the group responsible for bringing the CAF and CWH to the Abbotsford airshows, and in turn they took the whole fleet of 50+ airplanes to Oshkosh, Hamilton, and Harlingen. Unfortunately, fuel, insurance, lack of willingness, lack of reciprocity, and family commitments etc. brought it to an end. A few still continue on, going to the local American shows and enjoying what they do. You also have to remember that this was a generation ago, many of whom have passed on, taken up golf, or just stopped flying. A great number of those involved in that scene have seen a Mustang fly enough times (usually because they were the ones flying it) that they don't need to experience it any more, and they have passed the torch onto the next generation to carry it on. I count myself extremely fortunate to have been able to experience even at the tail end the warbird movement in the Vancouver area before it completely extinguished, and as a new pilot (and with the luck to be in my current position) I plan on keeping the warbird movement alive and to carry on the names and the legacies of those who brought me up in the warbird world.
Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:43 am
Thank you everyone for your input. I think Thunder Over Michigan is a little too pricey to get to, but maybe Chino... hmm....
Thanks you Warbirdcrew for giving me an insight into the local warbird scene of the past. I would love to work with you to keep the warbird scene alive in Vancouver (and area). I'm trying my best to help the Canadian Museum of Flight be the best it can be.
By the way, whatever happened with Arlington? Or did I just open up a can of worms? All I remember hearing was that there was some sort of a falling out.
Cheers,
David
Thanks you Warbirdcrew for giving me an insight into the local warbird scene of the past. I would love to work with you to keep the warbird scene alive in Vancouver (and area). I'm trying my best to help the Canadian Museum of Flight be the best it can be.
By the way, whatever happened with Arlington? Or did I just open up a can of worms? All I remember hearing was that there was some sort of a falling out.
Cheers,
David
Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:28 am
For the warbird enthusiast...Thunder is the best bang for your buck!
For the overall airplane enthusiast...Oshkosh.
For the overall airplane enthusiast...Oshkosh.
Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:15 am
I dislike airshows with jets.
The organizers try to keep aircraft in the air and on schedule and all you end up experiencing is turbines whining at idle for what seems like hours instead of the wonderful sounds of aircraft from the past. This is especially bad at military shows and when the Thunderbirds or Angels are performing or when the airport remains active while the show is being held.
I say either have all-piston airshows or separate the airshow times between jets and piston. And let each aircraft perform alone in its element.
The organizers try to keep aircraft in the air and on schedule and all you end up experiencing is turbines whining at idle for what seems like hours instead of the wonderful sounds of aircraft from the past. This is especially bad at military shows and when the Thunderbirds or Angels are performing or when the airport remains active while the show is being held.
I say either have all-piston airshows or separate the airshow times between jets and piston. And let each aircraft perform alone in its element.
Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:29 am
6trn4brn wrote:For the warbird enthusiast...Thunder is the best bang for your buck!
For the overall airplane enthusiast...Oshkosh.
With 300+ warbirds attending regularly, wouldn't Oshkosh be at the top of both categories?
Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:41 am
Unfortunately, unless you live near one of the major warbird shows, you're gonna have to haul your A** to them if you want to go to a big one.
I was so tired of reading about (no instantaneous internet then!) the big shows that when I was in college that I made sure spring break in Florida included TICO! I could only go one day but I was hooked.
Soon after college I made TICO the focal point of my vacation and toured everything in Florida every year and hooked many of my friends. Suddenly Manchester New Hampshire started to host the New England Escadrille for a few years (sadly no more) but Geneseo and Reading are the closest ones to Connecticut, 6 & 4.5 hours drive respectively.
One of the best things about the warbirds for me is the number of friends I have all over the U.S. I can really go almost anywhere and meet or run into someone I know. It's a real perk to liking these old birds!
If you don't have one near by and don't have the funding and infrastructure to produce your own, you're just going to have to fork over the dollars and go to what ever is closest. You won't regret it, especially if you can hook up with some of the characters on WIX. They can make an away show much better and you might make some new friends.
If you're lucky, in the end, you'll realize that it's the people you miss every year, not the aircraft. The aircraft are just the common thread that allows us to see our friends every show! I've been to many shows where the weather was horrible, but I had a wonderful time regardless. No show is a washout if you're with friends.
Blue skies,
Jerry
I was so tired of reading about (no instantaneous internet then!) the big shows that when I was in college that I made sure spring break in Florida included TICO! I could only go one day but I was hooked.
Soon after college I made TICO the focal point of my vacation and toured everything in Florida every year and hooked many of my friends. Suddenly Manchester New Hampshire started to host the New England Escadrille for a few years (sadly no more) but Geneseo and Reading are the closest ones to Connecticut, 6 & 4.5 hours drive respectively.
One of the best things about the warbirds for me is the number of friends I have all over the U.S. I can really go almost anywhere and meet or run into someone I know. It's a real perk to liking these old birds!
If you don't have one near by and don't have the funding and infrastructure to produce your own, you're just going to have to fork over the dollars and go to what ever is closest. You won't regret it, especially if you can hook up with some of the characters on WIX. They can make an away show much better and you might make some new friends.
If you're lucky, in the end, you'll realize that it's the people you miss every year, not the aircraft. The aircraft are just the common thread that allows us to see our friends every show! I've been to many shows where the weather was horrible, but I had a wonderful time regardless. No show is a washout if you're with friends.
Blue skies,
Jerry
Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:11 am
well put Jerry. It certainly is about the people. Seeing as how my vacation weeks have already been selected for this summer I'll have to wait until next year to figure out which air shows I might be able to go to.
If anyone's in my area I'll most likely be at the Abbotsford Air Show (August 8, 9, 10) for one of the days and will most definitely be at the best little air show in the area, the Chilliwack Flight Fest (August 17).
Maybe I'll some of you there!
Cheers,
David
If anyone's in my area I'll most likely be at the Abbotsford Air Show (August 8, 9, 10) for one of the days and will most definitely be at the best little air show in the area, the Chilliwack Flight Fest (August 17).
Maybe I'll some of you there!
Cheers,
David
let me attempt to alter your perspective a bit
Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:00 pm
DoraNineFan wrote:I dislike airshows with jets.
The organizers try to keep aircraft in the air and on schedule and all you end up experiencing is turbines whining at idle for what seems like hours instead of the wonderful sounds of aircraft from the past. This is especially bad at military shows and when the Thunderbirds or Angels are performing or when the airport remains active while the show is being held.
I say either have all-piston airshows or separate the airshow times between jets and piston. And let each aircraft perform alone in its element.
since i'm a jet guy that started with pistons.
The kids of today ONLY KNOW ABOUT JETS they are immersed in them from TV, Movies and printed matter. The kids come to see jets. They are not taught anything about WWII in school except how we were evil and attacked a bunch of countries to enrich our country.
Now if the kids come to see jets and ACCIDENTALLY see a P-51 it is your job to say "you know if you really want to find out about the REAL HISTORY and about that airplane ask grandpa because he flew them in combat when he was 19 years old, or I can help you find out the real story of WWII and why it was a necessary evil that had to be done"
If you get 1 kid a year to get excited about a P-51 thats 100 times better than the crap they learn in school.
Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:22 pm
Hey don't feel bad, I have to drive or fly to every show I want to see!!! We don't have any that are near me in Douglas, Wyoming! The closest thing we have is the Wyoming Air National Guard open house in Cheyenne, and seems I always have to work when that’s going on. I always go to Reno for the air races, but this year is a maybe. If the fuel prices don't come down a bit, I'm going to have a hard time justifying the drive to Reno this year.
Scott......
Scott......
Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:34 pm
daveymac82c wrote:Thank you everyone for your input. I think Thunder Over Michigan is a little too pricey to get to, but maybe Chino... hmm....
Thanks you Warbirdcrew for giving me an insight into the local warbird scene of the past. I would love to work with you to keep the warbird scene alive in Vancouver (and area). I'm trying my best to help the Canadian Museum of Flight be the best it can be.
By the way, whatever happened with Arlington? Or did I just open up a can of worms? All I remember hearing was that there was some sort of a falling out.
Cheers,
David
I don't know the specifics on the Arlington deal but it seems to be smoothed out some. It's more Warbirds than Abby but nothing compared to the other shows. I'm headed to Arlington in about 10 minutes and the weather is perfect. I'll post some pics when I get a chance.
Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:41 pm
Hey Spooky,
I had also heard that it was starting to get "better" with regards to the warbird scene there and that is definitely a good thing in my books.
I Look forward to seeing your pictures when you're back from the show.
Actually, my Dad's going to be down there for the weekend. If you meet a Australian from Vancouver, that's him. Daryl's his name.
Cheers,
David
I had also heard that it was starting to get "better" with regards to the warbird scene there and that is definitely a good thing in my books.
I Look forward to seeing your pictures when you're back from the show.
Actually, my Dad's going to be down there for the weekend. If you meet a Australian from Vancouver, that's him. Daryl's his name.
Cheers,
David