IDF/AF P-51 wreck photo on flickr

[Indian head]

Hello everyone;

From "Touchdown News" in the UK comes this one;

This mustang was flown by Sgt. Yonatan Atkes and shot down in 2/11/1956 , crashed at Ras Nasrani, Sinai

http://www.flickr.com./photos/danielme/ ... 3/sizes/l/

Any ideas on the identity???

[Swiss Mustangs]

IDFAF 2373 "73" of No. 116 Sqdn

Martin

[camshaw]

so the real ? is where is it today? still sitting in the sand? let me know, I'll go get it!

[n5151ts]

so the real ? is where is it today? still sitting in the sand? let me know, I'll go get it!

....you will have to beat me to it....

[Mgawa]

I have download image but I have no info about owner- any help?

[Mark_Pilkington]

"Wix at work" smiles

Mitchel25J says:
Hi Daniel,

While I'm on flickr I came to this photo via Warbirds Resource Group.org and the Wixs section of the group.

So the Question is this do you know if this Mustang was recovered from the crash site.

Also do you have any more photos of the Mustang that you can share.
Posted 8 hours ago. ( permalink )

Danielme says:
Hi Mitchell,
As far as I heard, the plane disappeared in 1984.

The photo above was apparantly taken in April 1980 at Ras Nasrani in the Sinai, this is apparantly an area captured by the Israeli's in the late 1960's but returned to Egypt in 1981.

Formerly Egyptian AF base of Sharm El Sheik/Ras Nasrani, in the Sinai, (outside of the current Israeli border). Taken over by the IDF/AF in 1967. Returned to Egypt in 1981. Location coodinates: N27 59 E034 24, elevation: 163 ft (50 m). One runway 03/21 degrees of 7986 ft (2434 m) length. Currently houses the US contingent of the UN MFO and also operates as a civil airport for the tourist resorts.

It is reported as being Mustang 2373 #73 flown by Sgt. Yonatan Atkes and shot down in 2/11/1956.

I have not seen an authoritive confirmation (in english) that 2373 was marked as #73, that seems to be an assumption based on the wreck being marked as 2373?

In mid November 1948 an improved system encompassing serial numbers for individual aircraft and radio calling code numbers was introduced. Each serial number was to consist of four digits with the first pair representing the aircraft type and the second pair the individual machine. It was to be painted on the fuselage. For fighter types 19XX was assigned to S-199,20XX to Spitfires,21XX to Mosquitos and 23XX to Mustangs. Thus an aircraft serialed 2042 would be Spitfire number 42.This system stayed in service until the late 50's.

Serial number styles

When Spitfires D-130 & D-131 were taken on charge their 20cm number was applied using the same stencils as had been used to number the S-199s by the CMU unit. The November 1948 system"16XX"(B-17) saw seven different styles of size and placements. The serials were applied at the field by the squadron, so Piper Cub from the "Galil" sq. had a deferent style of numbers from that of a Piper Cub from the "Negav" Sq. and so on.

Radio code number

Call sign numbers were first applied in November 1948 before Operation Chorev, as 75cm high thick stroked white numbers. Generally an aircraft individual serial number would also become it's radio call sign,e.g Harvard 1102/02,Mustang 2303/03. However in same cases this tended not to be so for two reasons.Firstly:mixed formation Sq.adron's like 101(S-199,Spitfire and Mustang),with the early single digit numbers taken up by the surviving S-199 1905/05, hence Spitfire 2004/14 and Mustang 2301/40.Secondly: newly delivered Spitfires tended to enter service out of serial sequence, while sq.adron commanders gave their aircraft radio call signs based purely on the order in which they entered service(Spitfire 2016/23).By 1955 only the radio call sign was applied on the fuselage,tail and wings

The above suggests the call sign # may have differed from the last two digits by 1955 in mixed squadrons??


Other photos of the wreck are claimed to exist:

iAt time of crashin 1956 (yet these two are marked #19 and #27?)
http://www.iafe.net/ma/pdf/mustang%20kills.pdf

Only on October 31st did the Mustangs join in the fighting and until the end of the war were used to attack enemy forces, outposts, fortifications, routes, shipping and other such targets. All in all, the Mustangs carried out 184 sorties, during which 7 aircraft were lost, including No. 19 lost near Sharm-A-Sheik in the southern Sinai Peninsula.

and in 1959 (seems to be same wreck only inverted)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/camille_fourcaudot/213564965/in/set-72157594234521378/

I understand the Israeli Airforce Museum have two Mustangs on static display #38 & #53 (and a wreck in storage #39, for swaps) I wonder if this one #73??? might actually be the wreck in storage?

(There is no mustang reported in the collection of the Egyptian National War Museum?)

http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/mus/world/israel/iafmus.htm

I note many WIX posters seem to have "Away"signs up, and have apparantly departed on urgent and hurried holidays to Egypt - smiles

regards

Mark Pilkington

[bdk]

There is clear evidence in the photo that the nosecase and prop broke off. Any crash photos with the prop still attached would probably be a different airplane (unless there was a previous crash of the same aircraft).

[Swiss Mustangs]

The a/c #39 at the Museum storage is an F-6K and here's what it looked like in 1994



it definitely isn't #73 which most probably was scrapped

Martin

[SaxMan]

Capt. Atkes' Musting was #19. I have a picture of it shortly after it was shot down in a magazine printed in the late 1970s called "Born In Battle". I'll see if I can fire the scanner up.

Mustang #19 was brought down by ground fire outside of Sharm El Sheikh (IIRC). Capt. Atkes was captured by the Egyptians and held prisoner for several months. Later in 1978, when Menachem Begin made his first visit to Egypt, the pilot of the El Al plane was none other than the same Capt. Atkes. This time, he was warmly welcomed by his former captors.