C-47 Skytrain Snagging A Glider

[Jack Cook]

Please enlighten me with this evolution and the C-47's equiptment.
I've never seen this before. This was the first snatch n grab in liberated France!!

[Jerry O'Neill]

Jack;
Great pic!
I've seen that proceedure in many photographs and film. They performed it quite often, though I don't have specifics.
Used many times to retrive undamaged gliders without having to take the time to disassemble them.
Jerry

[Swiss Mustangs]

great photo, Jack

found the original caption to your photo:

A glider snatch was accomplished by a C-47 tow plane flying just above ground level with a hook trailing behind from a cable that played out from a revolving drum in its fuselage. The hook snagged a glider towrope suspended between two vertical poles sweeping it airborne behind the tow plane from a dead standstill to 120 mph in a matter of 7 seconds.

Taken by Yves Tariel of Paris, France, this is a picture of the pick-up of the first glider to be recovered from the Normandy landings. It was taken on June 23, 1944 as the glider was being snatched from a field just SE of St. Mere Eglise France, by 1st Lt. Gerald "Bud" Berry, 91st TCSq, 439th TCGp.

some interesting info & photos here:

http://www.pointvista.com/WW2GliderPilo ... rieval.htm


the same 'contraption' is seen on this C-47 towboat



Martin

[Django]

I've always wondered how they didn't just rip the cable right off the glider from the force of going from a dead stop to airborne in a few seconds.

[Wheels up]

This was discussed a bit here...

http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... glider+fly

[lestweforget]

Memory is a bit fuzzy, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that they tried a similar sort of thing for collecting agents in occupied territory. Live pick ups were made and I remember seeing pictures. What a ride that would be

[maxum96]

Memory is a bit fuzzy, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that they tried a similar sort of thing for collecting agents in occupied territory. Live pick ups were made and I remember seeing pictures. What a ride that would be

Fulton system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulton_sur ... ery_system

[Old SAR pilot]

Adding a dissonant note, he said....

"It's prolly a C-53....they were rigged for glider towing"
http://www.xs4all.nl/~fbonne/warbirds/w ... c47verstab

And the ID of that plane is:

http://www.ww2gp.org/CG4A.htm

(also a note of the a/c rigging for towing)



But, then again, what the heck do I know.....

[airnutz]

Memory is a bit fuzzy, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that they tried a similar sort of thing for collecting agents in occupied territory. Live pick ups were made and I remember seeing pictures. What a ride that would be

Fulton system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulton_sur ... ery_system

The Wiki article is incorrectly worded in reference to the first human pick-up as being in 1958.
It may have been the first for Fulton's system, but not the first human aerial pick-up.

From what I know of early aerial retrieval devices...Fulton saw a demonstration of All American's
pick-up device in post-war London and felt he could improve on it. Interesting that the Wiki article states that
Fulton was having trouble with breakage of the pick-up line until he "discovered" a braided Nylon line
ended his troubles. Dupont solved their same problem in 1943 with...a Nylon snatch line.

The first human pick-up was attempted and performed successfully in September 1943.

Edited..almost mixed an apple with and orange.

Last edited by airnutz on Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

[airnutz]

I've always wondered how they didn't just rip the cable right off the glider from the force of going from a dead stop to airborne in a few seconds.

The line which payed out from the drum in the tow aircraft was steel. The "snatch line" draped across
the poles was Nylon and stretched somewhat like a bungee cord. The design of the winch played a large
part in gradually transferring the load of the static target to the towbird and reeling them in.

If you go back to the thread Wheels Up linked to about the Dreamflight 2009 project Gliderman1 and I (starting page 3)
start to get into the "bits and pieces" of the apparatus. He and I disagree on a few points..but it was a pretty fascinating
discussion for me...there ain't a lot of material on this subject on the web or in books, for that matter.

We've had unseasonably good weather and my workload has been rather brutal..but crappy weather is due
soon, so maybe as soon as this weekend we can resume that thread. The first time in a long time that I've
been "happy" about crap weather!!! I have a few corrections and misunderstandings tied to wording I'd like
to clarify and discuss the subject further with Charles.

Because of the fallout of interest in Dreamflight, I finally found a copy online of All American's, "Air Pick-up Handbook"...
Found and started to read a copy of the CG-4A Repair Manual and a few other goodies. No telling what else will turnup
as this project gathers momentum.

The apparatus has come a long way from rural Australians posting their mail into a "bucket or bag"
tied to an aircraft flying in a banking cone overhead while the farmer posted!!!(IIRC)

[maxum96]

The Wiki article is incorrectly worded in reference to the first human pick-up as being in 1958.
It may have been the first for Fulton's system, but not the first human aerial pick-up.

Yeah, wikipedia tends to be inaccurate. I just wanted to put that link in for the earlier poster who wasn't familiar with the Fulton System. I remember seeing a website a while back that had tons of info on the Fulton system. Unfortunately i can't remember it.

Last edited by maxum96 on Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[airnutz]

The Wiki article is incorrectly worded in reference to the first human pick-up as being in 1958.
It may have been the first for Fulton's system, but not the first human aerial pick-up.

Yeah, wikipedia tends to be inaccurate. I just want to put that link in for the earlier poster who wasn't familiar with the Fulton System. I remember seeing a website a while back that had tons of info on the Fulton system. Unfortunately i can't remember it.

The Wiki "can" be inaccurate, but "tends"... is a bit strong by half. Like TIGHAR..there is stuff worth
having and stuff you toss off!

[airnutz]

doppelganger..

Last edited by airnutz on Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Jack Cook]

BUMP.
You might enjoy this one also Mike!

[Mike Ingrisano]

Glider Snatch/Pickup. My WWII outfit, the 316th TCG, only did the snatch as training. We never really used this technique under combat circumstances.

But: I suggest you read the book “Into the Valley, The Untold Story of USAAF Troop Carrier in World War II: by Col. Charles H. Young. Young was the CO of the 439th TCG.

On pages 467-469 is the story “Remagen Glider Snatch of Medical Evacuees.”

“Utilized ‘live’ at Remagen [Germany] for the first time in the ETO, the evacuation of ‘litter cases’ by glider was to be used in the invasion area of VARSITY if the link-up between airborne and ground forces was delayed.” This first evacuation flight took place on March 22, 1945.

These three pages not only contain the description of the technique of the snatch but also has illustrations of the mechanics that were necessary to install in the C-47 for the snatch technique. Also included on page 468 is a “Nurse’s Perspective (on the Second Remagen Pick-up).”

There is much more to read than what I can send. The material was written by Gerald C. “Bud” Berry. I believe he also was with the 439th.