CG-4A to land in Normandy 2009?
Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:38 pm
From http://forum.planetalk.net/viewtopic.php?t=5483 :
DreamFlight™
24611 Spadra Lane Phone: 949.472.9612
Mission Viejo, CA 92691 Fax: 949.472.9300
From the Desk of John Pappas e-mail: dreamflight@sprynet.com
Web site: www.thedc3rose.com
‘A Living Tribute’
This is probably the very last opportunity to pay a fitting tribute to the allied glider pilots that flew tube, fabric and wood gliders into combat. These valiant men performed their duties courageously, suffered huge casualties but have received little recognition for their heroic service. They are a vanishing breed. There will be no future generations of American or British glider pilots in combat.
“It’s like flying a stick of dynamite through the gates of hell” American Glider Pilot in WW II.
The Project – DreamFlight has committed to commemorating the efforts and sacrifices of the WW II Glider Pilots by preparing a WACO CG-4A glider to flyable condition and appearing at the 65th Anniversary of D-Day, 2009. We will ship the CG-4A to England where it will be assembled and flown to Normandy for a landing at one of the LZ’s that were used on D-Day, 1944. Following that event, we will probably appear in Holland for the commemoration ceremonies of Operation Market Garden with a landing by the CG-4A.
Upon completion of our appearances in Europe in 2009, we will fly the C-47 ‘tug’ back to the U.S.A. for, hopefully, appearances at several air shows here to complete the year.
In 2010 we will take the glider to the home air fields (or appropriate nearby air field) of those museums and cities who have contributed to this project for an actual flight presentation of the CG-4A. We will also appear at several major air shows nationwide.
You can imagine the huge crowds that will gather to see the C-47 and Waco CG-4A combination at select air shows! DreamFlight will amaze the audiences with a glider tow launch, flight and landing right in front of the crowd! We hope to conduct a glider “snatch”, where the Waco glider is pulled from a standing stop to 120 mph in only 7 seconds! - re-creating the glider recovery so successfully used during the war.
We expect that this undertaking will receive a huge amount of publicity both in Europe and the United States. The project will bring recognition and commemoration to men of the Glider Corps who have, quite frankly, not received it in the past. It will bring a great deal of attention and interest to the museums which have WACO Glider displays.
Here is some of what we expect to happen and accomplish:
Appearance at Normandy and probably Operation Market Garden - Holland
Appearances at air shows in England and the U.S.A. – 2009
Flying appearances at ‘home’ air fields of WACO Glider Museums and Municipalities who support our project - 2010
Webinar and tele-seminar interviews with glider and ‘tug’ pilots, troops and support personnel. These will be preserved for future generations to remember.
‘Local’ appearances by Glider Corps personnel at air shows and aviation related events to ‘tell the story’ and provide pilot, crew and troop recognition
Preparation of DVD / CD’s of the story of our on-going ‘A Living Tribute’ Project
Contributions and financial aid to participating museums / organizations
Specific listing of and links to web sites of all contributors (museums, businesses, groups, etc.) on all of our web site(s).
YOU can be a part of this tribute. So many have given so much, we invite you to help in this one last opportunity to show our appreciation for their efforts !
We would like to invite you to participate with us in this fascinating project. You can become a part of our success by helping with parts acquisition, funding requests, referrals to media and many other needs that we will have. As a contributor to our success you will receive recognition in our public and media presentations. We also expect that there will be some financial return to the contributing museums as our fund raising gets into full swing.
Take the first step!
Send us an email with your contact information. If you have desire there will be something for you to do. You can be involved – a part of this fascinating project !
A very big Thank You to those who have already offered parts, services and support !!
There is lots and lots more to share with you about our project. Please contact me at the above phone numbers or dreamflight@sprynet.com or go to our presentation web site at www.esharethis.com and then to the category WW II Glider Pilots Project (the last category) to see what we are doing at this point. A ‘full fledged’ web site is being developed and will be available shortly.
We look forward to hearing from you soon. I will send more information about the very exciting aspects of this ‘ A Living Tribute’ project in our next messages. Again, thank you for your interest. We look forward to your participation with us in this fascinating, one-of-a-kind program.
Best regards, John Pappas
-
DreamFlight™
24611 Spadra Lane Phone: 949.472.9612
Mission Viejo, CA 92691 Fax: 949.472.9300
From the Desk of John Pappas e-mail: dreamflight@sprynet.com
Web site: www.thedc3rose.com
‘A Living Tribute’
This is probably the very last opportunity to pay a fitting tribute to the allied glider pilots that flew tube, fabric and wood gliders into combat. These valiant men performed their duties courageously, suffered huge casualties but have received little recognition for their heroic service. They are a vanishing breed. There will be no future generations of American or British glider pilots in combat.
“It’s like flying a stick of dynamite through the gates of hell” American Glider Pilot in WW II.
The Project – DreamFlight has committed to commemorating the efforts and sacrifices of the WW II Glider Pilots by preparing a WACO CG-4A glider to flyable condition and appearing at the 65th Anniversary of D-Day, 2009. We will ship the CG-4A to England where it will be assembled and flown to Normandy for a landing at one of the LZ’s that were used on D-Day, 1944. Following that event, we will probably appear in Holland for the commemoration ceremonies of Operation Market Garden with a landing by the CG-4A.
Upon completion of our appearances in Europe in 2009, we will fly the C-47 ‘tug’ back to the U.S.A. for, hopefully, appearances at several air shows here to complete the year.
In 2010 we will take the glider to the home air fields (or appropriate nearby air field) of those museums and cities who have contributed to this project for an actual flight presentation of the CG-4A. We will also appear at several major air shows nationwide.
You can imagine the huge crowds that will gather to see the C-47 and Waco CG-4A combination at select air shows! DreamFlight will amaze the audiences with a glider tow launch, flight and landing right in front of the crowd! We hope to conduct a glider “snatch”, where the Waco glider is pulled from a standing stop to 120 mph in only 7 seconds! - re-creating the glider recovery so successfully used during the war.
We expect that this undertaking will receive a huge amount of publicity both in Europe and the United States. The project will bring recognition and commemoration to men of the Glider Corps who have, quite frankly, not received it in the past. It will bring a great deal of attention and interest to the museums which have WACO Glider displays.
Here is some of what we expect to happen and accomplish:
Appearance at Normandy and probably Operation Market Garden - Holland
Appearances at air shows in England and the U.S.A. – 2009
Flying appearances at ‘home’ air fields of WACO Glider Museums and Municipalities who support our project - 2010
Webinar and tele-seminar interviews with glider and ‘tug’ pilots, troops and support personnel. These will be preserved for future generations to remember.
‘Local’ appearances by Glider Corps personnel at air shows and aviation related events to ‘tell the story’ and provide pilot, crew and troop recognition
Preparation of DVD / CD’s of the story of our on-going ‘A Living Tribute’ Project
Contributions and financial aid to participating museums / organizations
Specific listing of and links to web sites of all contributors (museums, businesses, groups, etc.) on all of our web site(s).
YOU can be a part of this tribute. So many have given so much, we invite you to help in this one last opportunity to show our appreciation for their efforts !
We would like to invite you to participate with us in this fascinating project. You can become a part of our success by helping with parts acquisition, funding requests, referrals to media and many other needs that we will have. As a contributor to our success you will receive recognition in our public and media presentations. We also expect that there will be some financial return to the contributing museums as our fund raising gets into full swing.
Take the first step!
Send us an email with your contact information. If you have desire there will be something for you to do. You can be involved – a part of this fascinating project !
A very big Thank You to those who have already offered parts, services and support !!
There is lots and lots more to share with you about our project. Please contact me at the above phone numbers or dreamflight@sprynet.com or go to our presentation web site at www.esharethis.com and then to the category WW II Glider Pilots Project (the last category) to see what we are doing at this point. A ‘full fledged’ web site is being developed and will be available shortly.
We look forward to hearing from you soon. I will send more information about the very exciting aspects of this ‘ A Living Tribute’ project in our next messages. Again, thank you for your interest. We look forward to your participation with us in this fascinating, one-of-a-kind program.
Best regards, John Pappas
-
Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:28 pm
Now I would drive a distance to see this!!!!! But my question is, how can they afford insurance for this and who would be crazy enough to insure them??? I bet tho, with that big wing, she would be ok with just a pilot and the odds would be better to not have a incident without the jeep in the back or no fence posts in the field your landing in or getting shot at.
Interesting
Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:53 am
That is a tall order. Materials alone, the cost is prohibitive. You could almost build a B-17 for the amount of work in a CG-4A. I wish him luck. Does anybody know who John Pappas is?
Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:33 am
He's talked to me a couple of times about some glider spars we've got here in Midland, but I haven't heard from him in a couple weeks. They seem pretty serious about this, but it's certainly a tall order. I wish them well in their venture and will help however I can.
Gary
Gary
Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:07 am
Where there is money, there is a way. Sounds like a cool project. Should be interesting to see them get a flight certificate and insurance.
Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:04 am
That sounds really great. I've got to find my way to the nearest airshow to see that.
At my museum we had a guest speaker at one of our dinners who was a British WWII glider pilot and his talk was absolutely fantastic. He actually flew several glider missions in his service.
By the way, as I recall, most of the gliders used in WWII were of the non-wheeled variety. Will the flying example of the Waco be equipped with wheels? And if so, I'd be interested to see how they set it up.
Cheers,
David
At my museum we had a guest speaker at one of our dinners who was a British WWII glider pilot and his talk was absolutely fantastic. He actually flew several glider missions in his service.
By the way, as I recall, most of the gliders used in WWII were of the non-wheeled variety. Will the flying example of the Waco be equipped with wheels? And if so, I'd be interested to see how they set it up.
Cheers,
David
pilot
Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:10 pm
Where would they find a pilot willing to fly one of those crates? Right here!! It sounds like a great idea and I have a glider rating and am current.
Of course, I have not flown anything that can carry more than 2 people, but I'd be willing to learn. I wonder if any of the original guys still fly? I am sure they can get some top glider pilots to volunteer, but if not......
Of course, I have not flown anything that can carry more than 2 people, but I'd be willing to learn. I wonder if any of the original guys still fly? I am sure they can get some top glider pilots to volunteer, but if not......
Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:09 pm
Am I right in thinking that the trainer used for glider pilots was the engine less J-3????? TG-1A?????? I dont remember its exact designation but one of our banner cubs used to be one. From what I was told, the glide ratio was similiar to the big Waco.
Ive been told that the J-3 frame was the same, it just had a nose bolted to the frame where the engine would be.
Ive been told that the J-3 frame was the same, it just had a nose bolted to the frame where the engine would be.
Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:12 pm
Yanks in Chino has lots of parts if they have something to trade.
Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:37 pm
daveymac82c wrote:By the way, as I recall, most of the gliders used in WWII were of the non-wheeled variety. Will the flying example of the Waco be equipped with wheels? And if so, I'd be interested to see how they set it up.
David
I don't recall Waco designs NOT having landing wheels.
http://www.pointvista.com/WW2GliderPilots/wacocg4a.htm
Especially the PG's -1's and -2's (Powered Glider).....
Here with Rangers....
But also equipped with Jakes or Franklins. A British pilot whom I don't recall delighted in the PG-2. He thought it was great fun. Tow plane???Ha we don't need no stinkin' tow plane!!! Screw them Gooney bird pilots!
Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:54 pm
WOW look at that, thats cool. I just asked my wife if she wanted to take a trip to France in June next year. She got all excited for a few seconds and then said "why June???? For what Normandy?" with a smart look........................guess I loose.
Gliders
Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:01 pm
The landing gear on the CG-4A was originally for training only- the combat landing was to be without wheels of any sort. Later, the landing gear was adapted for service as it made more sense to have it for many reasons.
The training gliders were of all sorts. Laister Kauffman, Pratt and Read, Piper, Taylorcraft, Aeronca and a few others made training gliders. The last three were adaptations of the civilian aircraft J-3, Aeronca Defender (later champ), and Taylorcraft L-2. Most of them were re-converted to aircraft after WWII.
The requirement for glider pilots was immense. The Normandy operation was limited by numbers of glider pilots in theatre to the extent that all of them were immediately pulled out of the field when located after the landings to be returned for later operations.
I'd love to see this project come off. But take one look at the box spar on that wing, and the 10 foot chord ribs, and start adding up what the wood costs from Aircraft Spruce, and you'll get an idea of how hard it would be to build one.
The training gliders were of all sorts. Laister Kauffman, Pratt and Read, Piper, Taylorcraft, Aeronca and a few others made training gliders. The last three were adaptations of the civilian aircraft J-3, Aeronca Defender (later champ), and Taylorcraft L-2. Most of them were re-converted to aircraft after WWII.
The requirement for glider pilots was immense. The Normandy operation was limited by numbers of glider pilots in theatre to the extent that all of them were immediately pulled out of the field when located after the landings to be returned for later operations.
I'd love to see this project come off. But take one look at the box spar on that wing, and the 10 foot chord ribs, and start adding up what the wood costs from Aircraft Spruce, and you'll get an idea of how hard it would be to build one.
Re: Gliders
Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:05 pm
Forgotten Field wrote:The landing gear on the CG-4A was originally for training only- the combat landing was to be without wheels of any sort. Later, the landing gear was adapted for service as it made more sense to have it for many reasons.
The training gliders were of all sorts. Laister Kauffman, Pratt and Read, Piper, Taylorcraft, Aeronca and a few others made training gliders. The last three were adaptations of the civilian aircraft J-3, Aeronca Defender (later champ), and Taylorcraft L-2. Most of them were re-converted to aircraft after WWII.
The requirement for glider pilots was immense. The Normandy operation was limited by numbers of glider pilots in theatre to the extent that all of them were immediately pulled out of the field when located after the landings to be returned for later operations.
I'd love to see this project come off. But take one look at the box spar on that wing, and the 10 foot chord ribs, and start adding up what the wood costs from Aircraft Spruce, and you'll get an idea of how hard it would be to build one.
"The requirement for glider pilots was immense. The Normandy operation was limited by numbers of glider pilots in theatre to the extent that all of them were immediately pulled out of the field when located after the landings to be returned for later operations"
Yep i can see it. Get towed behind a C-47 flying a huge crate with wings. Bunch of soldiers and a Jeep or a 75mm Anti-tank gun. Disconnect and Silence in the dark. Find the field to land in hopes that there are no obstructions like fence posts or steel orniments about to rip into the side of your glider. Clear the trees, avoid other gliders already landed or the occasional ditch that intelligence did not know was there in the middle of the landing field. Glider either crashes or lands............everybody out. Look back at the mess of tubing an wood as the Platoon Sgt hands you a rifle and says, "your in the infantry now"..........Those guys had brass balls.
Anyone know how quick pilots were recovered from the field??? Did they stay with the gliders???? Guess I need to read the book again "silent Wings" cause i dont remember.
Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:37 pm
I can't recall but it seems every landing made by one of those gliders caused damage to the aircraft? 
It would be great to see one fly but I am not sure how it would make out on the landings.
It would be great to see one fly but I am not sure how it would make out on the landings.
Re: Gliders
Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:19 pm
N3Njeff wrote: Find the field to land in hopes that there are no obstructions like fence posts or steel orniments about to rip into the side of your glider. Clear the trees, avoid other gliders already landed or the occasional ditch that intelligence did not know was there in the middle of the landing field. Glider either crashes or lands............everybody out. Look back at the mess of tubing an wood as the Platoon Sgt hands you a rifle and says, "your in the infantry now"..........Those guys had brass balls.
Nathan wrote:I can't recall but it seems every landing made by one of those gliders caused damage to the aircraft? It would be great to see one fly but I am not sure how it would make out on the landings.
Looks like most of these are completely intact......
Note the wingspan is 73' and most of those have skid marks less than 5 spans long.....that's halting 7500 pounds pretty quick!