Warbird Information Exchange

I have always wondered if the warbird restoration shops are actually making a good profit, or just getting by. Are most restoration shops busy? Are there shops that have several projects waiting to begin? or are they actively marketing themselves looking for projects? Is it a wise business venture to research? or just a passion for the few that really enjoy warbird restorations. Just wondering .... if there were plenty of projects out there, and money to be made, why not more shops springing up in other places?

One word. Craftsmanship. It ain't auto repair and general parts changin'.

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"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass..."
Admiral Isoruku Yamamoto

Does that translate into $$$$$?

Yeah well, the dollars are certainly a given since the repair/resto of small and large bits take the time it takes. There aren't really flat rate manuals out there. I was really referring to your question of why not more shops. My feeling is that it is a small market and the supply of truly talented craftsmen like Nelson and his team, Gary Austin, Gary Norville, Tim Savage, John Lane, Gerry Beck, etc... are a limited commodity. You can send kids to A & P schools and eventually get a competent mechanic, but what these guys do requires dedication and sheer talent to do what they do.

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"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass..."
Admiral Isoruku Yamamoto

Not all, but a few customers have no concept of what is involved in restoring an aircraft.It is very expensive.ask the guys doing the marine b-25 and look how involved that is.If a shop was contracted to do that work it would be outa-sight.Its a living but you wont become wealthy.

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Hang The Expense

Everything in this business translates to $

Some shops have 15+ airplanes in que to be restored, like Midwest Texans, while other shops, like Midwest Aero Restorations, keep a few Mustang projects on hand, and turn down alot of business to maintain their prestigous and iconic quality restorations.

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"There are two types of people here; airshow whores and airshow prostitutes. The whores, like you and I, do airshow stuff for free, whereas the prostitutes are paid" - Reg Urschler

I used to own an auto-restoration shop. You really have to love it to take on that kind of work, and you usually can't' keep the lights on by relying on that work alone.

Old planes and old cars are a lot alike, similiar people, similiar problems, similiar rewards.

B

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documenting restored B-17s and those undergoing restoration to flight:

So what I'm reading seems to be an industry of passion and craftsmanship as opposed to "crank it out" and move to the next project. The actual thought of making a bucket of money isn't really the top priority. So, this seems to answer why there are not more shops opening. No real profit to be found. It makes sense.

Hellcat: A shop can be profitable, but it takes three major things to do it and stay in business

1. People with the skills and the desire to do the job right. You don't have to have a few hundred grand in tools and equipment if you have the knowledge to use promitive tools to make the material do what you want.

2. Reputation. If you can deliver the job with the quality expected, within the contract parameters, you will have enough work to stay busy.

3. Customers with the capital to do the job, and the desire to have it done right with no cutting corners.

Item one takes practice and the willingness to keep your cool and watch, listen and learn anytime you are working. Item two comes as you build on item one. As your reputation grows, you need to jealously guard it by doing the job right, on time, on budget and with good communications with the client or boss. Once your rep is damaged, it's a killer to ever overcome. Item three comes as you continually improve yourself on items one and two.

I can forsee a time in my life where the average shop is going to be hard pressed to stay open no matter what they are working on. With the decline in pilot numbers over the last decade, the increase in regulation and the astronomical rise in costs, flying anything is rapidly being pushed out the possibility of the average person. That compounds itself in that fewer pilots means fewer mechanics and shops. That reduces the number of skilled people to the warbird industry. The rise in costs also pushes the small warbird owner closer and closer to either selling out or grounding his bird. Either is not a good omen. I've got a friend that has at least 7 warbirds, and I don't think any have flown in over a year due to his being squeezed by skyrocketing costs.

I'm not trying to be negative here, but that the trend that I see on the horizon if things continue the same. Is there room for another shop or more mechanics? You bet, but it won't be too lucrative and you won't be making a huge profit. If you go into that with the plan to make this an income augmentor, you can do fine. If you want to make a killer profit and not be working huge numbers of hours, you would need to do some reassesing. I have just a few years left before I am eligible for early retirement, and I have the plan already in motion. By the time I hit my retirement point, the shop will be up and fully equipped and in operation. It won't have to support me, just itself, so I can take on whatever I want and not have to worry too much about paying the bills.

Here's a prime example. Paul Allens Flying Hertiage restored a P-51 to 'factory fresh' a few years ago. EPOPS is one gorgeous Mustang, but it took Pauls very deep pockets and his instilled sense of do it right to the point that he had the original wiring duplicated down to the cotton insulation and had the inks used in part marking stamps analyzed and duplicated. They recently restored a radio for his FW-190 so it transmits and recieves, on a frequency that no one uses any more-keep buying Microsquish upgrades!!

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Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

How about specialty shops that manufacture only specific parts for specific warbirds ... i.e. ... P-51 parts, simply because the P-51 seems to be one of the most logical aircraft to restore as opposed to rarer aircraft. Are these shops out there? I could see a specialty shop that strictly manufacturer's P-51 wings or props or anything really. Maybe a specialty shop that deals with certain aircraft wiring .... could there be a market for these type shops?

Yes, there are many such shops that build specialty parts. Here is one example of a company (Flug Werk) that is building Mustang parts:

http://flugwerk.de/p51.shtm

Specialty shops can work, but it's a case of having a specialty that isn't so narrow, so that you can do business. If you can spot a niche that is needed and can be sustainable, it can work. I've got something spotted that my wife can do, despite her disabilities. Not only is it sustainable, but it crosses every part of aviation. If I can figure out how to come up with the startup needs, we will probably get it going sooner rather than later.

ive been kinda wondering about this same thing. as an A&P student i would rather go to work for a restoration shop then go into some place like FED-EX, UPs etc etc. I started out during high school at a Mustang(car) restoration shop and now ive moved onto planes and i want to get the skills like some of the pople mentioned before. i personally will work at something until it looks right like it suppose to be. i cant stand to see something that ive worked on not be like it suppose to be whwile others above me say "that'll work" and not be exactly right. oops sory went off on a rant.

i got a side question, anyone out there possibly looking for someoen liek me when im done with A&P/avionics school? lol

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http://www.fighterfactory.com/
http://www.militaryaviationmuseum.org/



Jon

There's an old saying in aviation...."Small planes, small money...big planes, big money." Now, with the current state of afairs in the airline industry, there may be some reason to wonder if that statement is still valid. However, I can tell you that I'm just finishing up my 20th year of being in this line of work and I just recently purchased a "pot to p1ss in," although I'm still making payments on it. My point is that when you get out of A&P school, you need to decide what you want in life. Do you need to support a family with your license and your work, or can you survive on the meager wages that you'll make at a Warbird restoration facility? An airline type job (particularly freight haulers) might be the more sensible way to go, but if your heart is in these old airplanes and you don't mind struggling financially in exchange for being encouraged to perform good, quality work, then the Warbird arena is for you.

The payoff in the Warbird world isn't usually monetary in nature. It's the respect of your peers and more so the feeling of pride you feel when a Veteran or youngster marvels at the work you've done to a flying piece of history. It's the people and the machines in this industry that have kept me here. And I intend to be tinkering with these ol' clunkers for quite a while.

Gary