Warbird Information Exchange

This question may be a broad one, but lets see if I can explain what I'm asking.

You're flying a heavy warbird, lets keep it to single engines. You experience engine failure, you're near water and relatively flat land that you have no idea of whether it's soft, hard, swampy etc. NO roads at all. No farm land. You're out in the middle of nowhere. There's trees down there in areas so if you decide to bring it down on land you better have quickly figured out your decent path, no room for error. Do you land wheels up? or chance retracting your gear and taking a chance on not flipping over.

The water is right up to the grass, no or very little sand, assuming fresh water, do you ditch in the water? Does a water landing close to shore save an airplane more than a wheels up landing on soil?

Am I missing anything here?

I'm curious as well. I don't have the option on the L-5, but I assumed that if you were landing anywhere that didn't look like a good landing zone, you'd leave the gear up to minimize drag and be able to fly the airplane as far as possible.

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REMEMBER THE SERGEANT PILOTS!

The rule off the airport forced landings are done gear up is written in blood. Bill Compton's F6F crash is a prime example.

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Don't touch my junk!!

Hi Hellcat!

I haven't been in that situation, but in my training, and now my thinking, the last thing I am thinking about is the airplane. My thinking is kinda like this,,

Fly the airplane
Find a landing area.
Fly the airplane
Do not hit people on the ground.
Fly the airplane
Save my pasengers and myself.
Keep flying the airplane.

I personally would not ever ditch given the choice. It sounds like a good way to drown yourself or your passengers. Having a reasonably intact airplane means nothing if you are dead, or someone has died or been permanantly injured in your airplane.


If I had retractable gear, it would probably be up if it was on a non-paved surface.

Orvis

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DEEP THOUGHTS BY KIDS:
"If we could just get everyone to close their eyes and visualize world peace for an hour, imagine how serene and quiet it would be until the looting started. Age 15 "


Deep Thoughts,
Jack Handy

A few examples come to mind, didn't during WW2 there were a few times allied pilots would land in a field to pick up downed pilots? Was this because they were young and daring? Or they actually knew the ground below? I can certainly see the logic for wheels up landings on unfamiliar soil today. How about gear up VS gear down on sand? Any rules to go by there? I'm assuming the wider the beach, the better chances of a gear down landing. I assume more chances of hard sand.

I had an Engine start acting up and I headed for a road.. I was on final when it quit.. Down no damge.... Paper element sucked into the carb.. I buddy just put on down in a field gear up he said it slid but not very far suprisingly.

Someone ask Rob Collings....I seem to recall he has belly landed the -5 Corsair in the drink off the coast of Florida a number of years ago....think he did it wheels up if I recall....

M

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Mark Morris

We have runways 15 right and 15 left parallel and take off directly out over the ocean. In my flight training years ago here in Santa Barbara, I was always told to ditch if I had engine trouble right after take-off. One too many have stalled and crashed trying to turn back to the airport. Instructors always said ditch in the ocean. I think there still is a Cessna sitting out there in water.

Hi Hellcat!

They were indeed very daring! And having a pilot on the ground to wave you off if it is bad might help a little. Still, very extraordinary circumstances.

When you see pictures of planes gear down on the beach, it has been carefully thought out under the best of circumstances.

The planes are heavy, the landing speeds are higher than the ole 172 or decathalon. You are in an emergency situation with very little time to get it right. It would suck to get it all right and flip the plane on the ground while it bleeds off the last ten knots.

I've also heard of guys shutting off the engine on very short final to avoid a propstrike on a gear up landing. I would never do that either.

The plane means very little to me compared to being dead or spending the rest of my life in a wheelchair.

They and you are right, never turn back on an engine out on takeoff. Straight ahead, if it's water, you ditch.

_________________
DEEP THOUGHTS BY KIDS:
"If we could just get everyone to close their eyes and visualize world peace for an hour, imagine how serene and quiet it would be until the looting started. Age 15 "


Deep Thoughts,
Jack Handy

Good stuff, another set of curcumstances come from our air racer friends, who blow engines all the time and "dead-stick" in heavy racers. I wonder what are some of the rules for a bail-out as opposed to trying to land with no power? I can imagine a few of them, but it would be interesting to hear from some racers about when the decision is made to bail-out.

So if ditching a heavy warbird in water, what do you think are the procedures? ....

I would imagine they would be the same as if you were in a 172, only on the bigger birds you can leave the gear up.

Gear up
Slow as possible
Check your harness is locked
Tell your passenger/s what is going to happen and what to do
Crack the door/canopy

Get out baybay, Fast!

heheee

_________________
DEEP THOUGHTS BY KIDS:
"If we could just get everyone to close their eyes and visualize world peace for an hour, imagine how serene and quiet it would be until the looting started. Age 15 "


Deep Thoughts,
Jack Handy

There was an excellent article in a Warbird mag a couple of years ago where Kevin Eldridge talked about jumping from the Super Corsair.

He talked about himself never really checking the parachute completely when he got into the plane and not really thinking hard about getting out of the plane.

When he jumped, he hit the tail, which hurt him really bad. When he tried to use the chute, the ring came off in his hand. He managed to survive the incident, and his story is incredible.

Since reading that, I make it a point to inspect the parachute. I also keep everything clear of the harness. And I think through the bailout procedures on the T28. I personally think that there is a 50-50 chance of getting hurt during a backseat bailout on a T28, but by thinking about it beforehand, I'll probably do better than most.

_________________
DEEP THOUGHTS BY KIDS:
"If we could just get everyone to close their eyes and visualize world peace for an hour, imagine how serene and quiet it would be until the looting started. Age 15 "


Deep Thoughts,
Jack Handy

Very interesting, but what would you do with the attitude of the nose when committing to a bail-out? I'm trying to picture the process in my mind. Would you have time at altitude to, for example, flip the plane on it's back? and drop out then? .... I'm just very nieve to a bail-out procedure.

I don't think the experience of racers is very applicable here. When a race engine blows, the airplane is usually at high speed, and over an airport with lots of options after converting speed to altitude. The good racers also practice extensively for an engine out emergency. As far as I know, Kevin's is the only time in Reno-era racing that anybody has jumped out of an airplane, and he did so because he was on fire and had already tried his fire bottlle.

Losing an engine on a cross country or on takeoff is a very different situation...

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Neal Nurmi

---Wingman Photo---