National Pride ... Great Britain or USA

Does Great Britain have more pride for the Spitfire or does the USA have more pride for the Mustang? Hope this one doesn't cause a tussle ... lololol ...

I would have to say the Spitfire means more to Great Britain simply because of the Battle of Britian.

But maybe the B-17 means more to the USA because without the bombing of Germany, the war might have been a draw or a loss for all the allies.

Maybe it's the B-29 which ended the War.

Last edited by Hellcat on Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

[Anowreck]

I work in education so I thought this was an interesting question (allowing for the fact that we should really be talking Great Britain!).

Amongst the real anoraks, it's probably "The Merlin" - the sight and sound of the six Merlins of the Battle of Britain flight, (1 each Spitfire, Hurricane and Lancaster) still stirs mightily.

But amongst all citizens of all generations: it's Concorde! Or was until a stupid Gover..... oops! Politics! Anyway, it was probably the first time in the post-war generation that we had something you Yanks didn't have!!

[Steve Nelson]

Speaking as a Yank, it seems the Brits are far more fanatical about the Spittie as we are about the Stang. The Brits seem to be much more into their national history and heritage than we are on this side of the pond. I would venture to say that everybody in Great Britain knows what a Spitfire is (and would recognize one) while most Americans younger than middle age have never even heard of a P-51 (unless they played it on a flight sim or downloaded an episode of "Dogfights" on their iPod.)

As for Concorde, I was privelaged to see one in flight once. In the late '90s Western Michigan University opened a flight school here in Battle Creek, MI, and contracted to train pilots for British Airways. To publicize the event, they brought the first load of students in on Concorde. Since I work in the media, I got to be within 50 yards of the runway when she came in..a really beautiful bird, but probably the loudest thing on taxi I've ever heard!

SN

[Sean Curtiss]

I share Steve Nelson’s opinion. We didn’t have to defend our mainland from invaders or attacks (I’m not talking about Pearl Harbor or other places). The Brits had. Germany threw everything they could and they had to defend themselves with what they had. The Spit is one of the top most icon symbols of that struggle.

Now, every American plane was massively produced during the war, be it the P-51’s, P-40’s, P-47’s, B-17’s and the list goes on. So there’s not one single aircraft you can pinpoint and say that it made the difference. People might argue that some really did and I must agree with that, but the diversity of a/c we had cannot put one of them on top of any list. Just as an example if I say it was the P-51, folks will say it was the B-17. Others will say the Hellcat was the one. Others will say it was the Higgins boat… and oops, ok…Remember we fought in two parts of the globe at once with full force. If it wasn’t for Steven Spielberg (Saving Private Ryan, Empire of Sun and others), people wouldn’t even know what a Mustang looks like. Ok, maybe they still don’t…

About the Concorde, when I was very young, my father, who was still in the Air Force, took me to see one up and close. Man, I was really impressed. I got underneath one and it was so huge and so tall that I will not forget that image until the day I die.

Cheers,
SC.

[mike furline]

I would guess here in the States very few people under 35 know what a B-17 or a P-51 is.

I've made about a dozen trips to England and my impression was that quite a bit more people know what a Spitfire is and they seem more interested in thier history.

Regards,
Mike

[Stoney]

Once again the Hurricane gets no respect. By the way, when you are out of AT-6s/SNJs/Harvards, you are out of WW II pilot trainers. Can't fly the big ones without learning on the little ones.

[T2 Ernie]

Having lived in the UK for nearly 7 years, including an exchange tour with the RAF, I have to concur with the folks that say the lads over there know & appreciate their history much better than we do. Naturally, the BoB is a huge affair and is why this appreciation is still burned into them today.

[PeterA]

Here is a photo passed on to me by Bill Greenwood taken by an unknown photographer at Oshkosh 1990.

I have it framed in my office and titled it just as Bill called it.

"The Three British Eccentricities"

I remember arriving at Oshkosh in the Spitfire and Bill being ordered to hold for the Concorde to land...one of those 'Proud to be British' moments.

PeterA

[K225]

Just remember without the Merlin there wouldn't have been the ultimate Mustang which was built to British spec's initially. I was sitting having lunch the other day at VWoC admiring the Mustang, Spit, and Hurricane of their collection we all agreed for pure beauty of lines its the Spit hands down. The Hurricane has that tough can do look about it. The Mustang is a similar machine but one things for sure I have a lot of respect for all the fellows mostly kids who flew these machines no matter what nationality!
Just my Canadian's two cents worth!!
By the way the PT boats had their roots in a British design as well the British Power Boat company's 70 footers were the basis of the Elco boats.
In my view whether your British American, Canadians or any allies it didn't matter it was the colaboration of all who made it happen.

[Steve Nelson]

Re: the Hurricane and Merlin not getting their due, I would tend to agree. But the original subject of the thread is about national pride (popularity) which often has little to do with actual historical importance or impact.

Here in the States, the B-17 is regarded as "the" WWII bomber, because it got all the press. But its stablemate the B-24 carried more bombs farther and faster, and there were 30% more Libs built than Forts (18k B-24s vs 12k B-17s.) But since the Lib was harder to fly, not quite as durable (although that's debatable..some Libs got shot up pretty good and still brought their crews home) and a bit of a "ugly duckling," it was allowed to fade into historical obscurity.

SN

[K225]

The same could be said with the Halifax vs the Lancaster on the British side. And remember the British Bombers only flew with one pilot.

[Trey Carroll]

Even though I'm just a little Yank, I'd have to say the Spit is more iconic to the Brits. It is one of the most beautiful and graceful airplanes to ever grace the sky, and it came at a time when Great Britain needed her the most.

And a reason most Americans dont have more pride for their '51: there was the Corsair. Alot of people like the Corsair over the Mustang. In short, we Americans had more choices in airplanes to be proud of, if that makes any sense. Whereas, Britain (basically) had the Spitfire...

TC

I think also the fact that America never had to fight for our collective lives like the English had to in the BOB. If it weren't for the Spitfire, Great Britain might just be speaking a different language. I don't believe that America ever thought that any country would actually invade the US and be able to occupy it. Even in the darkest days of the war, the thought that Japan or Germany invading America and staying was probably not a realistic thought. And I also think, without getting into a huge debate here, that Japan had no intention to occupy the US, Germany maybe, but not Japan ...

[K225]

I have to agree the US can be proud of her achievements the P51, Corsair , not to mention the P38, P40 and P47.
The Brits had the Spit, Hurricane, Mosquito, Typhoon, and Beaufighter that performed just as well. the lessor lights such as the Defiant and Gladiators were there as well.
Just to name a few.
Is there more pride from one country to another hard to say, in the warbird community we appreciate them all. At Oskosh one year I stood beside a young Frenchman who was esctatic to see a B26 flyby in French markings. A beautiful machine was he proud you bet!