RAF, RNAF, RAAF P-40 Hawk Vid

[Shay]

Real nice vid.

Some nice footage of early Tomahawks. Even some of No. 112 Sqd hamming it up in North Africa.

I am curious though, anyone know the story behind the "Pontiac" (As the automobile company) logo on the side of one the 112 Sqd. Tomahawks at 8 mins 27 secs?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9CwP_JMI2A


Shay
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Semper Fortis

[Stoney]

Was that a Corsair in the backround at about 3:40

[Shay]

Was that a Corsair in the backround at about 3:40

Sure looks like an American Corsair (Marines?) flying along with RNZAF Hawks.

Shay
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Semper Fortis

[daveymac82c]

That was a really neat video. I quite enjoyed it.

Cheers,

David

[The Inspector]

I believe the CORSAIR in question is wearing NZAF markings which were a big blue/white/yellow roundel with big blue flanked white bars so the markings 'looked' like U.S. so they didn't get bagged by friendlies, maybe Mr. Cook has some pix of F4U's in NZAF or ANZAC markings

[AIRIC]

That was an entertaining video. You have to love the air-to-air footage at the end.

Eric

[Shay]

I believe the CORSAIR in question is wearing NZAF markings which were a big blue/white/yellow roundel with big blue flanked white bars so the markings 'looked' like U.S. so they didn't get bagged by friendlies, maybe Mr. Cook has some pix of F4U's in NZAF or ANZAC markings

You might be right, but I'm gonna stick with my first guess. Still looks like a star in the center and not just a circle. Plus there seems to be some numbers just ahead of the national insignia which reminds me of the USMC's Corsairs


Shay
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Semper Fortis

[oz rb fan]

looking at it i'd also say it's a rnzaf corsair.
great video

[Dave Homewood]

I believe the CORSAIR in question is wearing NZAF markings which were a big blue/white/yellow roundel with big blue flanked white bars so the markings 'looked' like U.S. so they didn't get bagged by friendlies, maybe Mr. Cook has some pix of F4U's in NZAF or ANZAC markings

That Corsair is a US aircraft. I have seen better quality footage of - I believe - the same clip. The RNZAF very seldom had opportunity to operate its Kittyhawks and Corsairs in the same airspace operationally and these P-40's are wearing operational markings. RNZAF P-40's and Corsairs did indeed fly together at home in NZ from stations such as RNZAF Station Ardmore. But I am coinvinced this is a US Marine or US Navy Corsair.

The RNZAF P-40's operated regularly with US aircraft on strikes, flying as escorts to US bombers (medium and heavy, and dive bombers) and often US escorts were along with them.

As for the quote above, the statement "big blue/white/yellow" is incorrect. The roundels began as standard RAF type with red centre, white, blue and yellow outer. The red centre was removed because of too many incidents when US fighter pilots attempted to, some succeeding, shoot down their RNZAF Allies due to poor markings recognition. The red was painted blue to reduce mistaking it for a red Japanese roundel. Later after this film was taken the blue centre of the roundel was reduced to just 3 inches to even more make the RNZAF aircraft recognisable as allies.

The yellow outer roundel colour of the markings only appeared on some aircraft and this was because our markings were painted over factory applied RAF and USAAF markings and so the outer colour was retained in some cases. It's a very complicated business and I recommend Warren Russell's books on RNZAF and NZPAF markings for further reading to understand all the variatuions.

As for the other usage above of the term NZAF - the New Zealand Air Force never had its own aircraft and disolved long before the war becoming the New Zealand Territorial Air Force. These aircraft belong however to the RNZAF, the regular service that before June 1934 was referred to as the New Zealand Permanent Air Force.

Last edited by Dave Homewood on Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[The Inspector]

Thanks so much for clarifying the markings question on this F4U, and the confusion over who had what style of markings on which particular day, it's one of the things that drives me nuts when I attempt to do WW2 OZish models, the options seem to be almost individual in choice.
Also thank you for explaining who had control of the aircraft, all this time I was under the impression that NZAF and ANZAC were seperate services, maybe a bright light needs to be shined into that corner of WW2 aviation history, I'd appreciate it!
I fully agree that there must be better pictures of this aircraft, that's one irritating point about all the YOOHOOTOOBE stuff, digitized film looks like it's being projected through a screen door onto a window pane across the room and details get way beyond soft and fuzzy.

[Dave Homewood]

No problem.

Also thank you for explaining who had control of the aircraft, all this time I was under the impression that NZAF and ANZAC were seperate services

ANZAC is and never was a 'service', it was just a term applied to the instances when the Australian and New Zealand military worked together, such as at Gallipoli in 1915 when it was first coined. It's not an official service like USN or RAF.

The term ANZAC relates to all or any services, army, navy or air force, at any time when the two countries co-operate militarily. It would be like if the USA and Canada teamed up to go to war together, two totally seperate countries and military philosophies working together for the greater cause.

The NZAF was a territorial unit made up of New Zealand's ex-WWI RFC and RAF pilots who held training camps once or twice a year as refresher courses. This was replaced in 1937 with a more rigidly structured Territorial Air Force who met once or twice a week and actually had aircraft in their units (Blackburn Baffins and Vickers Vincents). This lasted only till the 4th of September 1939 when war was declared and they all became regular RNZAF. The Royal New Zealand Air Force being the regular air force of this country.

[TAdan]

Real nice vid.

Some nice footage of early Tomahawks. Even some of No. 112 Sqd hamming it up in North Africa.

I am curious though, anyone know the story behind the "Pontiac" (As the automobile company) logo on the side of one the 112 Sqd. Tomahawks at 8 mins 27 secs?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9CwP_JMI2A


Shay
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Semper Fortis

Great video! There is no doubt that is a Pontiac logo. I'd also like to hear an explanation if anyone has one... (And then build a model of it)